Steve Bruce

[Woodytom]

1 minute ago, USA_Villa said:

Just thought I'd mention. Brentford scored three against us and then three against Brighton (Who equalized in 97th minute). When was the last time we scored three goals Steve?

Dean Smith in the summer please.

Really missing the striker we've just spunked 15m on to hoof aimless balls to, aren't they?

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

I come in peace

...

I've trimmed your post because, well, look at it.

I agree, the last two games haven't been good enough. I don't think you'll find a villa fan who would disagree with that so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

What upheaval?

SIX of the players who started Saturday's game were bought in january. Two of them were making their debut, two of them were making their second appearance. Four of them had been at the club for less than a week. They'd probably trained what, 3 times?

If that's not upheaval I don't know what is.

 

 

Yes, players and teams take time to settle. I realise that's shocking, and it doesn't fit into the ideal of "these guys are professionals they should be amazing straight away!" but unfortunately that's reality. It's not unique to Aston Villa or Steve Bruce.

[Tommo_b]

3 hours ago, AshVilla said:

What i meant was a remit not set by the club, but by the fans i remember quite a few on here saying that they expect Bruce to get us in the play offs this season and will judge him based on this outcome hence failure if he doesn't get us there.

He certainly has but what annoys me more than anything is that were still not doing the basic stuff correctly. 

When Bruce was appointed i was happy because i expected us to go back to basics because he's an experienced coach but we haven't done this and were still making the same glaring mistakes we have done previously under Garde, Sherwood e.t.c.

I'm not enthused by our style of play either at the minute. We have ball players in the middle of the park who can get into the box and score goals for once. Is it to much to ask for us to utilise them correctly and play the ball into feet instead of going direct all the time. It would also be nice to see our CM's pass the halfway line as well.

You can't judge the manager on a remit set by what a portion of the fans think when the manager is working to a different set of rules set by the chairman. 

Also why do we need to choose a "progressive" young manager who haven't achieved anything in their careers as of yet compared to an experienced manager with multiple promotions, the most recent being less then a year ago under his belt?

Now don't get me wrong, I didn't want Bruce and was excited by the prospect of Wagner, but from a chairmanship point of view, Bruce is tje stand out candidate, and still is! 

[Kiwivillan]

6 hours ago, briny_ear said:

That made me smile, having just ploughed through about 10 pages of posts, most of which seriously question the manager!

It seems people are turning on Bruce just like they have turned on every manager we have had in the past 5 years or so.

Seems to me at some point we need to start seriously question if putting all the focus and pressure on the manager, coupled with their frequent replacement, is actually getting to the root of our long term problems.

People are turning on Bruce because of the abject performances. Don't try and make out like fans of every football team on the planet wouldn't do the same

[terrytini]

Steve I won't quote your post just to save space but I respect your views.

What I can't accept is how you and a couple of others keep referring to the last two games as being poor. 

With the odd 40 minute exception we have been pretty poor since Bruce arrived, and results wise we've been poor for 11 games, not two.

And THAT, not two games, is why fans , even myself who no one could accuse of being a torch bearing villager, are so extremely unhappy and concerned.

[Grasshopper]

Tiger Woods has won 14 major titles (Only Jack Niklaus has won more - 18)

So if any one knows how to win a major its him. 

Steve Bruce has 4 promotions from Ch to PL (noone has more)

So if anyone knows how to get promoted its him

Tiger Woods is past it though - spent force

ALL Villa managers since God knows when become a spent force.

We are in fact the best at rendering players coaches & managers alike useless.

Only nowadays we need less time to do it. we've become super efficient at it. Maybe even the worlds best.

The only ones who can compete with us are Portsmouth & Leeds, However, Leeds are being Monk'd at the moment.

If we stay patient enough, give it time and a bit more money, I'm sure we'll be Bruce'd into a Portsmouth soon enough.

[KSV]

Geez.. this thread is making me sad. Dont get me wrong.. I lead a good and happy life.. but man Villa get me down..

Sack him.. dont sack him.. will it make a difference? probably not.. Let him go and see what happens.. like i said about Garde.. i have come to the conclusion.. lets just give him a pre season. 

[Brumstopdogs]

Give Bruce to the end of the season and then reassess how he has done and if he is the man we want us to lead us into next season.

Hopefully he'll get the new signings gelling into a team in the coming weeks.

UTV.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Steve I won't quote your post just to save space but I respect your views.

What I can't accept is how you and a couple of others keep referring to the last two games as being poor. 

With the odd 40 minute exception we have been pretty poor since Bruce arrived, and results wise we've been poor for 11 games, not two.

And THAT, not two games, is why fans , even myself who no one could accuse of being a torch bearing villager, are so extremely unhappy and concerned.

We're referring to the last two games because that's how long literally more than half the current first XI have played for.

Performances haven't always been good under Bruce, but the point was he was getting results (until January) with what he had to work with.

 

The goal was always to get to January so bruce can add to the squad. That's exactly what has happened, albeit with a poor run of form over the past month.

Concern is fine. Literally nobody is saying to not be concerned at our current form.

However, a lot of people can understandably see that things may very well improve rather than get worse.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

Tiger Woods has won 14 major titles (Only Jack Niklaus has won more - 18)

So if any one knows how to win a major its him. 

Steve Bruce has 4 promotions from Ch to PL (noone has more)

So if anyone knows how to get promoted its him

Tiger Woods is past it though - spent force

ALL Villa managers since God knows when become a spent force.

We are in fact the best at rendering players coaches & managers alike useless.

Only nowadays we need less time to do it. we've become super efficient at it. Maybe even the worlds best.

The only ones who can compete with us are Portsmouth & Leeds, However, Leeds are being Monk'd at the moment.

If we stay patient enough, give it time and a bit more money, I'm sure we'll be Bruce'd into a Portsmouth soon enough.

Tiger Woods is past it so we should sack bruce before we end up like Portsmouth.

I've never read such nonsense.

 

[terrytini]

Can't agree Bruce was getting results until January, we've got 11 points from the last 11 games ? That's fact, and it's relegation form.

Secondly, if he HAD been getting results until January and it was the recruitment that was now costing points then by definition that would be the Managers fault for bringing a good run to an end by his dealings !!!

Bu he didn't, because we've been poor going back considerably further than January.

[terrytini]

And Stevo I would genuinely love to know why people ( it isn't a lot btw) can 'see things may very well improve' ?

I WANT them to improve, I think they SHOULD improve ( let's face it to get worse than the last 11 games would be utter calamity) and I HOPE they improve.

But I can't 'see things may very well improve' because there is no evidence for it other than Bruce has had success in the past.

Fwiw I think if he changes his approach he might do better, but with each passing game I'm less convinced even of that.

[briny_ear]

9 hours ago, terrytini said:

The investment side is sorted, we now need the guy to make it work,

That's a really interesting statement. When you say the investment side is "sorted", what do you mean?

Our new owner has invested enough money to get us back playing in the top half of the premier league? The money he has spent has been spent well and wisely?

Those are just two guesses at what this could mean.

Both would be totally wrong in my view. We still have a massive problem in converting money spent on players into success on the pitch, and consistently blaming every manager we have for these failures is an increasingly inadequate approach as the years of failure roll by.

[terrytini]

I simply mean the owner had invested in sufficient quality players to compete for promotion rather than relegation as was the case under Lerner.

I think the owner has done his part.

Give or take a player or two We have the Leagues three top scorers at least two of the top midfielders, we have other players with the all important leadership/ player of the season/ captain/ been promoted qualities we have a bit of decent youth and we have a few ex Premier League. We have a considerable number of Internationals.

We have as good a players as anyone outside Newcastle.

As for blaming the Managers, I don't follow the logic of your comment at all. Which Managers do you think did a good job ? In what way is Bruce looking like he is doing a better one ?

When Levy sacks Managers because he wants to win the League he is seen as striving to achieve. I see no difference. If, as under Lerner, there is no investment there is at least an argument that something else is contributing to failure but that can't be said of Xia.

I think they should be given time, but not an exemption from the normal ideas of what constitutes success or failure and the appropriate action.

 

[terrytini]

 Mcleish, Lambert, Sherwood,Garde, Black, RDM.

All sacked.

All gone on to achieve precisely nothing.

Acheived nothing with us.

Yet a fair number of the players who were complained about are playing on either the Premier League or Championship in sides higher than ours .

Yet the argument is we are wrong to have sacked the Managers ?

[AJ]

Remember when Mank City struck oil money? They were a low level premiership team, then they started buying a lot of high quality players, shifting the incumbent players into the background, but they could do it because they had a bottomless barrel of money all of a sudden. Mark Hughes was the manager at the time.

Despite having all these "super stars" , they still played poorly, and it cost Mark Hughes his job. They got Mancini in, and within a little time, they started playing consistently better, and started winning comps.

Mark Hughes is not a bad manager. From what it seems, he is doing a good job now at Stoke, and has been there for the past 3 years. If, for some hypothetical reason he was to say to Stoke that he is only interested in managing Villa, then blows a raspberry and walks off, I think a lot of people here would be happy with that and welcome him with open arms.

I get that an overload of new players need to settle in, understand each other, and gel. We have this now because we have an owner that is generous and ambitious. The potential is there for us to be great again.

Steve Bruce also has the potential to be the man to lead us back. There is no pressure now. We are not chasing anything anymore, so lets just try and work on becoming our best in preparation for next season. The last 2 games stank the house up, but it matters a lot what happens from now on, and how Steve and the team respond.

Steve has the rest of the season to work on it. He has to show that he can manage this team, by getting these clowns to actually play football together. That is the absolute minimum. If, however, the last 2 games is the standard, then Steve Bruce is nothing but a glorified caretaker, and one we can do without.

The time to move forward is now. If he cant manage improvement out of this lot between now and the 46th game, then he is not the manager for us next season.

Over to you, Steve.

 

 

[Kiwivillan]

It's got to the point where I think Bruce (or perhaps Calderwood) are hindering our players from achieving their potential. How do you resolve this? I can only think of one solution

[Grasshopper]

I really dont want to argue the toss with anybody.

We are all Villa fans and want the best for the club that we all love.

Like everyone else here, I want to say my piece.

I think the whole "task" that is AVFC has simply weighed Bruce down and he doesnt/didnt have the energy/know-how to transform from getting results to getting performances and results.

The sheer enormaty of the challenge has beaten him. He tried change after change, but his 2 defining decision (imho) he got wrong

He brought Gaby back into the squad

and

He brought in an unproben inexperienced GK to replace an unproven inexperienced GK

Both have given us zero fruition, the GK costing us goals.

I think he's gone from changing things around to what can I try now and I should imagine his head is spinning and the incohesion that has come into our play is a by product of the players thinking WTF?

I think he's "gone" "done for" I dont thing that even all his experience can help/save him.

Some are saying "Sack him"

Some are saying "give him time"

Does one really honestly believe that giving Bruce time to "save himself" will save us face?

F*** the media, Sky, pundits and the nonsense that is "political correctness"

AV doesnt need their opinion, we need Tony to invest, Wyness to run the club, Round to take care of his "structure" and a manager who wins games.

Bruce is not doing it and hasnt been doing it for a number of games.

In Fact, things are getting worse.

Get rid, do the guy a favour before he looks as jaded as PL was.

Just as there is no garantee that the next one, or the one after that will be the right one.

There us no garantee that giving Bruce time will work either.

Now, the guys saying sack him are getting shot down by those who can not give one single fact of what Bruce can or cant do.

So I'll say this now, the longer Bruce stays the more it costs in time and money to find the right guy.

What if he scrapes enough to "go again" next season, only to scrape by enough to get a "he  needs more time" Time can only not run out if he delivers, he hasnt and he isnt.

There really is no point in any one who says "sack him now" to come on here to say "I told you so" come Xmas when/if we are STILL playing catch up.

I bet my left B*ll*k that it will end up that way keeping a "hoofer" who holds back.

So here's my disclaimer

Nothimg would please me more than Bruce putting it all together abd either performing a miracle to get us up this season, or walking the league from day 1 next season. Because I Love AVFC and I want the best for us.

But I just cant see this leopard changing its spots.

Prove me wrong by all means and I'll spank my left Monkey till it drops off.

But it just aint gonna happen with him

Sack him and lets get on with someone else. I'm sure DrT, Wyness & Round have a back up plan. if not, then why not?

Bruce out - I've seen enough to lose any belief I had in him.

[OutByEaster?]

Other than a handful of people here, I've heard no real pressure on him in the press - he has the backing of the Chairman and he seems reasonably content with the task at hand.

He's only been here 119 days, he's just started in normal terms - I know we've not been a normal team over recent years, but I think that's an adjustment we need to make, both in terms of realising that the club is stabilising and as part of helping it to stabilise. If we were to lose the next three, then I think he'd feel pressure, that's natural, but as things are; he's been here less than four months, he's got a bundle of players that have been here a fortnight and a staff that have been together three months. 

In my mind, he's still our 'new' manager - a bloke starting out, on that basis I'm happy to give him more time, the opposite makes me smile, it seems odd to me.

Now, you can point out the hypocrisy that I felt differently about Di Matteo and indeed about Sherwood, but I think in both of those cases you can make a genuine case that neither are really football managers, that they were to some extent chancers who'd talked their way into jobs they were unsuited to - Bruce is an experienced, 'normal' manager, I think that gives him a little more grace. In Sherwood's case, we're also now a different club to the one that Lerner left.

So, yeah, for now, let's play out the season under the new manager, then have a look in the summer and see what he wants to do - unless it's been a disaster then he should be carrying on into next season - at which point he will have pressure on him by the very nature of the job at hand.

We're in a crucial two year period that decides whether we'll be a Premier league club with a blip on its record or a Championship club with faint ambitions to one day hit the big time again - I think in context, changing the manager again during that period means that the job for any new candidate will be harder, they'll have less time to change it or bring in their own players and ideas, less time to turn it around - for better or worse, I think we have to commit to trying it with this manager first, and I think that's true for almost any manager that we'd have currently in place, whether that be Bruce or A N Other - I'm not prepared to suffer a clown, but I don't think we have one, I think we have a manager, hopefully we have a good one, but we won't know until he's had a go at it.

 

[Tommo_b]

I get the Bruce out comments, hell even I thought it after the Brentford game, I did actually see improvements during the Forest game, and I bet I see improvements the next game, as many have said, we have 6 new first team players who have never player together, plus the other 5 first team players who have never played with the other 6 new players, now it is going to take time for them to know how eachother like to play etc, giving Bruce just two games with a new squad is ridiculous!

if come the last few games of the season the football is still dire, then yes, sack him, but until then, imo we have to give Bruce time to bed this whole new squad together.