Vive_La_Villa Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 My moneys on sacked by Christmas. Hope I’m wrong because it probably means no promotion this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: It's not like we haven't tried to sign a LB, but for Fulham we'd have (arguably) a very good one, no point in buying someone just for the sake of it and whether you or others like it or not, players can play in different positions, it's really not that unusual a thing. Shit, I remember Dion Dublin playing centre back the best part of 20 years ago, Chris Sutton, started as a centre back and converted to striker, as with everything it gets blown out of proportion round here to suit particular populist narratives. whilst i agree 5 RBs and 1 LB, 2 natural CBs is **** stupid! then you throw in 3 of those RBs have been signed by Bruce and 1 of them was leaving on free this summer until Bruce gave him a contract, other than de laet all of them are here because of Bruce 2 RBs and then a 3rd RB who can cover the LB position i can accept, i can even probably accept 2 RBs a 3rd who can cover LB and then seeing as hutton is 33 a youth 4th RB who is a youth prospect...but we dont, we have 5! we have 2 RBs who can cover LB, 1 RB who can cover RW, 1 RB who is youth prospect who we never play! and 1 RB who can cover whatever position bruce dreams up that morning who isnt even ours you cannot defend bruce on the imbalance of our defence, its criminal Edited August 30, 2018 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: My moneys on sacked by Christmas. Hope I’m wrong because it probably means no promotion this year Before the end of October for me although I wouldn’t be surprised if he went if we lose on Saturday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, jim said: Before the end of October for me although I wouldn’t be surprised if he went if we lose on Saturday. Exactly. I said the same a week or so ago that I think he will br gone by Halloween. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Lets just hope the club has lined-up, well-thought-out, candidates if we were to make a change. And their pref. backroom staff for that matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Lets just hope the club has lined-up, well-thought-out, candidates if we were to make a change. And their pref. backroom staff for that matter. Agreed. I want Bruce out as much as anyone, but his replacement has to right. If you were to offer me the likes Moyes we as may aswell keep bruce. One thing that does give me hope is the time it's taking to find a CEO. Of course they could takes months looking and still get in wrong, but the fact they have taken so long suggests the search is thorough, which with a bit of look suggests they may be aiming high. Get the CEO right, and we have a better (not guaranteed) chance of getting everything else right (including manager). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Is this black and white VT again? I enjoyed last season. There was a problem in that it wasn't good enough to go up. Good for you enjoying last season, hope you're enjoying yourself this year as well. Enjoying the football is a great supplement to the season if we aren't going to go up I'd say. I thought it was total crap last year. It's been clear the wrong man is in charge for over a year now. So I want him sacked because he can't get us up, and plays consistently terrible football with a fantastic squad at his disposal. If I enjoyed the football last season, I may want a change, but I wouldn't be banging the doors down as I like watching up play. Is that where you are? I'm jealous if so, be great to enjoy watching your team. One day I'll have that again - it won't be under this manager though. Edited August 30, 2018 by Tomaszk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Good for you enjoying last season, hope you're enjoying yourself this year as well. Enjoying the football is a great supplement to the season if we aren't going to go up I'd say. I thought it was total crap last year. It's been clear the wrong man is in charge for over a year now. So I want him sacked because he can't get us up, and plays consistently terrible football with a fantastic squad at his disposal. If I enjoyed the football last season, I may want a change, but I wouldn't be banging the doors down as I like watching up play. Is that where you are? I'm jealous if so, be great to enjoy watching your team. One day I'll have that again - it won't be under this manager though. Great. All I was saying is it's possible to enjoy a season and still want change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Great. All I was saying is it's possible to enjoy a season and still want change. as someone whose 1st post in this thread was i hope we sack him if he gets us promoted i agree, if we had won the playoffs i think there would still be plenty who would want bruce gone no matter how much fun that day would have been he has no long term-ism at this club 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 There is no long-termism at this club. Never has been really. Change comes from the top - Bruce is a symptom rather than the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: whilst i agree 5 RBs and 1 LB, 2 natural CBs is **** stupid! then you throw in 3 of those RBs have been signed by Bruce and 1 of them was leaving on free this summer until Bruce gave him a contract, other than de laet all of them are here because of Bruce 2 RBs and then a 3rd RB who can cover the LB position i can accept, i can even probably accept 2 RBs a 3rd who can cover LB and then seeing as hutton is 33 a youth 4th RB who is a youth prospect...but we dont, we have 5! we have 2 RBs who can cover LB, 1 RB who can cover RW, 1 RB who is youth prospect who we never play! and 1 RB who can cover whatever position bruce dreams up that morning who isnt even ours you cannot defend bruce on the imbalance of our defence, its criminal I agree that we should have better options in defence but again, it's not as though we haven't tried, we know about Bryan but who knows how many other attempts or enquiries we've made. We seem to be close to signing a CB from France so it is being addressed in some form or another. The amount of RB's we have is exaggerated in some respects, true if looking at it cynically but in reality, Elmo has spent far more time on the wing or as wingback than he has in defence, de laet was inherited (and long term injured), Bree was bought because of this and Hutton's patchy form, on to him - Hutton has been reborn as a LB, I think we can all agree that's where he's best, weirdly, Tuanzebe can, and has played in a range of positions and Richards is a complete joke, and an inherited joke. Think that's all of them isn't it? Now what I will say, is none of them have been particularly good at RB as of yet, which is a fair point of discussion but simply saying its imbalanced because we have 5 RB's is a bit misleading without the added context. In my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I agree that we should have better options in defence but again, it's not as though we haven't tried, we know about Bryan but who knows how many other attempts or enquiries we've made. We seem to be close to signing a CB from France so it is being addressed in some form or another. The amount of RB's we have is exaggerated in some respects, true if looking at it cynically but in reality, Elmo has spent far more time on the wing or as wingback than he has in defence, de laet was inherited (and long term injured), Bree was bought because of this and Hutton's patchy form, on to him - Hutton has been reborn as a LB, I think we can all agree that's where he's best, weirdly, Tuanzebe can, and has played in a range of positions and Richards is a complete joke, and an inherited joke. Think that's all of them isn't it? Now what I will say, is none of them have been particularly good at RB as of yet, which is a fair point of discussion but simply saying its imbalanced because we have 5 RB's is a bit misleading without the added context. In my opinion. I personally think Elmo is perfectly adequate at right back and should always be starting there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 hours ago, A'Villan said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_Bielsa#Coaching_style http://www.leaguemanagers.com/leadership-wellbeing/manager-interviews/steve-bruce-great-unknown/ Interesting contrast don't you think @TRO? On one hand you have a coach said by some of the games best and many more that work with him that he inspired them as men and athletes. He turned down Inter Milan to continue on with what was a team assembled on pittance in Bilbao. Also turning down Mexico to continue as Leeds boss recently, he hasn't lived up to the press fed critics by abandoning Leeds just yet. People have mistakenly taken his nickname to mean he is an actual lunatic. On the other hand you have a coach who is possibly the punching bag of British football. A dinosaur. Tactically inept. Boring. Yet his career as manager has seen four promotions, and his record with Wigan was better than Martinez (who was said to be working miracles keeping them up), helped Sunderland to their 2nd highest finish in the Premier League, took Hull to an FA Cup final. I'd say both are hard done by the press, but no way does Bruce compete with Bielsa as a manager. In my opinion Bielsa could be the resurrection of Leeds to European placing. I don't see that happening for us under Bruce. Not sure what the point is........i see a major contrast between Saunders and Taylor, but loved them both. There is no perfect style. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, TRO said: Not sure what the point is........i see a major contrast between Saunders and Taylor, but loved them both. There is no perfect style. Tro you have to stop living in the past. Football has moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Tro you have to stop living in the past. Football has moved on. Has it? in your mind. most of the tactics that feature today......have been used years ago. its modern day marketing, kidding you that its something new. Edited August 30, 2018 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Has it? in your mind. most of the tactics that feature today......have been used years ago. its modern day marketing, kidding you that its something new. I bet you top players can’t play at the highest level while still drunk anymore. But I guess it’s all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, TRO said: Has it? in your mind. most of the tactics that feature today......have been used years ago. its modern day marketing, kidding you that its something new. My estimation of you dropped with this post. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 On 29/08/2018 at 21:09, A'Villan said: The problem with this acknowledgement of his methodology is that it applies to every manager, some are better than others in the mentioned areas, and it may be that they are then identified with that trait. Every manager has to prepare their team to 'think the game out' on the pitch, every manager needs to recruit well regardless of policy, and every manager needs to man manage. But there are a myriad of facets which make up the performance and outcome of any given football match. The one quality you mention Bruce has an inherent tendency toward which is not a necessity of management is his defensive mentality. I think what you've done well is identify two strengths and a weakness in Bruce's approach which are standouts. That being he has a record for recruiting players of proven ability wanting to move, either the fringe players of a bigger club or a standout achiever at a lesser club, rather than developing the player or selecting based on the perceived ability to play a certain role in a given system. He has relatively good man management ability. I would put this largely down to a combination of his personable nature and vast first-hand experience of being a footballer. And lastly and probably most evidently has a defensive, 'difficult to beat' approach, that often lacks any strategic suitability or tactical ingenuity that results in poor cohesion and is dependent on the skill and nous of the individual to win the contest. Rather than tailoring his plans to the uniqueness of differing scenarios he has a rigid and dogmatic philosophy. In my opinion he is the anti-coach, not because he is unsuccessful in the outcome of a given football match or because he can't motivate players to do their best, but because he leaves ingenuity entirely up to the players, leaves development of players to the people he recruits from and likewise the trials and errors of strategy to his peers. A coach is someone who teaches, trains or instructs the process of improvement or how to attain a goal, not someone who's pupils rely mostly on what they've learnt elsewhere to overcome the challenges they face. It's not all bad under Bruce though. Allowing players the freedom to make their own decisions and come up with their own ideas actually boosts creativity. That is why you will often find the most creative player (typically a #10) allowed freedom in any given side. However it is important to note that having a skill-set is a prerequisite to successfully pulling off ideas in a competition. Without that, you can be as 'creative' as you like, but you will be like a fish out of water. Because Bruce tends toward the tried and tested, he has a reasonable amount of success with leaving players to their own devices. Don't get me wrong here, I am not suggesting creativity is bolstered under Bruce. But it's undeniable that there's been some noteworthy success for players under Bruce. Players like Bent, Sessgnon, Gyan, Henderson, Huddlestone, Snodgrass, Larsson are players who's attacking football suffered no loss as a result of playing under Bruce. Then from our own end we've seen Adomah, Kodjia, Hourihane and Grabban make statements at championship level, not to mention the rise of Grealish has come about in the freedom and responsibility afforded him by Bruce. Unfortunately for Bruce though individual efforts are not enough in a team game of eleven a side and even seven years ago Bruce was being labelled a dinosaur and telling the press, 'I don't really do tactics', whatever he meant by that, in response to him losing games to managers with lesser teams. Football is a free-flowing affair and requires players to compete for 45 minutes at a time without instruction, a lot happens in this time that is simply out of the managers control. This is evidenced by Bruce achieving success within the sport. In basketball or American football you would be finished without tactics and set plays in your repertoire.Whereas in football, by recruiting well enough and keeping the players upbeat and motivated, he compensates for a lack of preparation, versatility, coaching and tactics. My most recent coach told me in order to be pro you have to do all things adequately and one thing well, that's just to get your foot in the door. Bruce has achieved more success than most in professional football and I think regardless of his shortcomings his knowledge of the game is obviously strong enough to acquire 4 promotions (relegated twice) and a 10th place finish in the top flight. His knowledge of the ins and outs of football is probably underrated, irrespective of his inability to adapt. Brilliant read thank you for posting this - I would only add this, you speak of his promotions and knowledge of the game - but would you agree these two facets are born out of longevity in the game as opposed to having a particular skill set ? thanks again though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, TRO said: Has it? in your mind. most of the tactics that feature today......have been used years ago. Mainly used by Steve Bruce... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, TRO said: Has it? in your mind. most of the tactics that feature today......have been used years ago. its modern day marketing, kidding you that its something new. Hey TRO - I am a little surprised at these comments football has moved on beyond all comprehension since you and I first stood on the Holte many years ago - unfortunately it's our manager that has not moved on - he most probably would have been a successful manager back in the day - but those days are long long gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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