Jareth Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: These are the calls he's paid the big bucks to make though, and he consistently gets them wrong. Against Wolves for example he opted for a 2 man midfield against their midfield passing game and we predictably (even he predicted it before the match which makes his decision even more indefensible) got overrun in midfield and completely ripped apart. Today he made the correct decision at around 70 mins (I'll not get into how it was about 25 minutes too late) to bring on Keinan and have a target man up front. But he completely undermines it by taking off Hourihane for the last 20 minutes, our best set-piece taker (and only decent one left on the field after taking off Snodgrass) and leaving on Onomah who was having a stinker. What happens is we have some very good set-piece opportunities in the dying minutes and our best set-piece taker hauled off the pitch inexplicably. I would have backed Conor to bury that last free kick. It's this complete lack of foresight that bugs me. His only tactics seem to be "don't change a winning team" and "only try something different/new after losing". Unfortunately it's not 2002 anymore and he can't just coast by being a 'man manager'. His complete lack of tactical awareness and foresight has been costing us points. These aren't some clairvoyant tactical masterstrokes he's not delivering on, these are the basics that you'd expect any manager to be able to employ. Well I can't argue with any of that. But, we're in the play-offs as it stands and win the next game and we are on course. Might be that Brucey's magic formula works in the championship but for all the reasons outlined I would be glad of a new man in charge if we get promoted - carries equal risk as sticking with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: These are the calls he's paid the big bucks to make though, and he consistently gets them wrong. Against Wolves for example he opted for a 2 man midfield against their midfield passing game and we predictably (even he predicted it before the match which makes his decision even more indefensible) got overrun in midfield and completely ripped apart. Today he made the correct decision at around 70 mins (I'll not get into how it was about 25 minutes too late) to bring on Keinan and have a target man up front. But he completely undermines it by taking off Hourihane for the last 20 minutes, our best set-piece taker (and only decent one left on the field after taking off Snodgrass) and leaving on Onomah who was having a stinker. What happens is we have some very good set-piece opportunities in the dying minutes and our best set-piece taker hauled off the pitch inexplicably. I would have backed Conor to bury that last free kick. It's this complete lack of foresight that bugs me. His only tactics seem to be "don't change a winning team" and "only try something different/new after losing". Unfortunately it's not 2002 anymore and he can't just coast by being a 'man manager'. His complete lack of tactical awareness and foresight has been costing us points. These aren't some clairvoyant tactical masterstrokes he's not delivering on, these are the basics that you'd expect any manager to be able to employ. Agree with every single word mate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, Jareth said: Well I can't argue with any of that. But, we're in the play-offs as it stands and win the next game and we are on course. Might be that Brucey's magic formula works in the championship but for all the reasons outlined I would be glad of a new man in charge if we get promoted - carries equal risk as sticking with. It's probably enough for just about making the playoffs. But with the way we play against the top teams do you really back us? It's automatic or bust imo...possibly quite literally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, Keyblade said: It's probably enough for just about making the playoffs. But with the way we play against the top teams do you really back us? It's automatic or bust imo...possibly quite literally. I harbour hope, why? I can't explain. Whatever happens this will likely be Bruce's final season for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Jareth said: Well I can't argue with any of that. But, we're in the play-offs as it stands and win the next game and we are on course. Might be that Brucey's magic formula works in the championship but for all the reasons outlined I would be glad of a new man in charge if we get promoted - carries equal risk as sticking with. I disagree mate. When you look at the performances and results other managers in this leagues are turning out, and then look at the strength of our squad relative to other squads in the league, i don't think replacing Bruce carries an 'equal risk' The risk to our chances of promotion lie with Bruce alone. I think there are a number of managers in this division that would do at least 'as good a job' as Bruce. I would replace him tomorow for any number of current championship managers. He has been a football manager for 25yrs, there is a reason that a midtable championship club is the biggest gig he's every had. And they were his words not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 20 minutes ago, av1 said: I disagree mate. When you look at the performances and results other managers in this leagues are turning out, and then look at the strength of our squad relative to other squads in the league, i don't think replacing Bruce carries an 'equal risk' The risk to our chances of promotion lie with Bruce alone. I think there are a number of managers in this division that would do at least 'as good a job' as Bruce. I would replace him tomorow for any number of current championship managers. He has been a football manager for 25yrs, there is a reason that a midtable championship club is the biggest gig he's every had. And they were his words not mine. Fair do's. If it were my money, I'd probably stick with now, and can't see we'd realistically get any better at this point in terms of out of work managers - plus it would be Birmingham-esque to swap managers when doing ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Baffling today. We played even less football than usual. Every time we had the chance to keep the ball for a bit, we lumped an aimless hoof upfield and just waited for it to comeback. We have a superior team in every way, but contrived to make them look 'good'. Despite us sitting back for the counter, they still seemed to have men over all the time, particularly in wide areas. In a tight game, as it went on we got better, but then when you're looking to pinch a late winner, he brings off our two best set piece takers. More disappointed with today than the loss to Cardiff away. A massive missed opportunity imo, derby game or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Should have made a change at half time and it should have been onamah off , blues are a poor side who were there for the taking If we had played anywhere near our best . 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Jareth said: Fair do's. If it were my money, I'd probably stick with now, and can't see we'd realistically get any better at this point in terms of out of work managers - plus it would be Birmingham-esque to swap managers when doing ok. Only looking at out of work managers would be a discussion for the Xia/Wyness thread, so I'll jist say at this point that it would be a mistake to only look for out of work managers. I think we are a big enough attraction in this league to attract many good 'in work managers'. But again, thats not for this thread. Your second sentence interests me though, and it's actually the reason i want him gone. It comes down to what you think is ' doing ok' For me, Leeds, Forest, etc are all doing ok. We, given tbe resource available should be doing much, much better. So i disagree we are doimg ok. This team is better than 5th place, and as such i think we are massively underperforming. Given the performances, squad and league position, sacking Bruce now would not be seen as a huge cock up (not that i care what the rags would say anyway). I wonder how the Newcastle fans would have reacted last season to defensive rubbish and 5th place in the league? Why should our expectations be any lower than theirs? The difference is that they had a good manager, we don't. Edited October 29, 2017 by av1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 15 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: We have a superior team in every way, but contrived to make them look 'good'. Since Bruce took over i find myself saying that exact sentence every other week. Its why he needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, av1 said: Since Bruce took over i find myself saying that exact sentence every other week. Its why he needs to go. However it is achieved (whether it be via play offs, or automatically), IF Bruce gets us promoted then 'contriving to make the other team look good' won't matter, so in my opinion, it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: However it is achieved (whether it be via play offs, or automatically), IF Bruce gets us promoted then 'contriving to make the other team look good' won't matter, so in my opinion, it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Yes but my point is that i don't think Bruce can achieve it. I posted this a while back, its how i see Bruce. On 24/09/2017 at 13:28, av1 said: Shit analogy alert. But watching us play under Bruce reminds me of watching a tennis match. When 1 bloke is winning every service game to love, and the other fella is winning his games but being taken to deuce 4 or 5 times every time he's on serve. The game might be tied 5 games all, but you know the guy serving to love every game is going to win, because the other chap can't keep going to the well. Thats how i see Bruce. Yes we will win games, there is to much quality in the squad not to, but as i said earlier, you can't keep scrapping through games and expect long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: However it is achieved (whether it be via play offs, or automatically), IF Bruce gets us promoted then 'contriving to make the other team look good' won't matter, so in my opinion, it's not a valid reason in and of itself. You're right, but it was another game today where he wasn't brave enough in his selections/tactics. Too many games like this could well cost us imo. There was no reason for the negative mentality today. He brings it on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 minute ago, av1 said: Yes but my point is that i don't think Bruce can achieve it. I posted this a while back, its how i see Bruce. I understand what you are saying and you may well be right. It's certainly what happened last year, but I think this year is looking a bit different in that yes, the team still does not look fluent, but we are starting to look harder to beat, we do stay in the game for most of the matches and we are creating chances, so I think our chances of progress are also significantly improved. Whether it lasts or the upturn is enough, is yet to be seen, but in a way, that's my point. Until the tennis match is over you can still come back and win. To extend your tennis analogy, until recently, (when he went up a level to dominating), going the distance was Murray's stock-in-trade, where he would often engage in marathon sets and rarely totally dominated, but still ended up winning more matches than he lost through a mix of having just enough skill and determination to overcome his opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Bruce continues to do what he has to do for .... Steve Bruce. By his own admission he struggles to sleep during the season because he is "terrified of losing". A couple of weeks ago against Wolves, and today against Blues it became blatantly obvious. The fact that we had the better players, the better form and much the better goal scoring record going into a match against 4th bottom Blues a few hours ago didn't sway Bruce one bit, he still set out not to lose .... not for the sake of Villa, but because he is personally afraid of losing! We are being managed by an inadequate manager who will continue to bottle it every time he feels threatened. Bruce's inability to watch a Villa penalty is a fair indication of the fear under which he operates. His nerves ideally should be his problem only, but when they dictate our style of play (on numerous occasions) his fear becomes an anchor dragging back our future progress. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bruce is a decent bloke who is out of his depth in the biggest job he's ever had. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul33 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 His pre-game team talk should have simply been "listen lads, if we lose then we are still in the play-off places so **** it ..... just go at it without fear and trash them !!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: Bruce continues to do what he has to do for .... Steve Bruce. By his own admission he struggles to sleep during the season because he is "terrified of losing". A couple of weeks ago against Wolves, and today against Blues it became blatantly obvious. The fact that we had the better players, the better form and much the better goal scoring record going into a match against 4th bottom Blues a few hours ago didn't sway Bruce one bit, he still set out not to lose .... not for the sake of Villa, but because he is personally afraid of losing! We are being managed by an inadequate manager who will continue to bottle it every time he feels threatened. Bruce's inability to watch a Villa penalty is a fair indication of the fear under which he operates. His nerves ideally should be his problem only, but when they dictate our style of play (on numerous occasions) his fear becomes an anchor dragging back our future progress. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bruce is a decent bloke who is out of his depth in the biggest job he's ever had. Chrissake, is it barrack room psychoanalysis this crazy thread is descending into now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, Paul33 said: His pre-game team talk should have simply been "listen lads, if we lose then we are still in the play-off places so **** it ..... just go at it without fear and trash them !!!" Oh yeh, and if we’d lost today this thread would have been awash with messages of congratulations would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) Imagine him managing us in the premier league. He'll create defensive systems Mourinho would even shy away from. Even if he gets us up I'd still want him gone. Edited October 29, 2017 by VillaChris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, VillaChris said: Imagine him managing us in the premier league. He'll create defensive systems Mourinho would even shy away from. Even if he gets us I'd still want him gone. Not against him getting the boot if we go up, Championship is very probably his ceiling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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