Steve Bruce

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, weedman said:

Interesting that Leeds are playing with 3 of the back 4 not in their natural positions, I guess that rules out Bielsa for a few posters, or is it only a problem if Steve Bruce does it? 

I couldn't imagine Jedinak playing in a Bielsa side, he'd be confused with all the passing and moving.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, sne said:

Sure we do, like every team in the Championship.

 

Not every team has lost half of theirs.

[AvfcRigo82]

I hope we are setup better tomorrow night with a bit more fluency about our game.

Do that with goals and 3pts and there is no problem. We go again..

[sne]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Not every team has lost half of theirs.

True.

Like us for example.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

I couldn't imagine Jedinak playing in a Bielsa side, he'd be confused with all the passing and moving.

did you just choose to avoid the question, by stating one of your own....bit of a strawman dodge there sheepy.

[vreitti]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not every team has lost half of theirs.

What is this nonsense? We've lost Terry and Snodgrass of last years mainstays. What am I missing? Furthermore, we are stocked with Bruce's own buys, with very few that are performing anywhere close to the required standards. 

[sheepyvillian]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

did you just choose to avoid the question, by stating one of your own....bit of a strawman dodge there sheepy.

Come on TRO, read between the lines. 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, terrytini said:

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to watch us play Brentford off the Park tomorrow.

At least thars something we can ALL agree on..............can’t we ?

 

 

 

Honestly, I am all Dean Smithed out. What a fuss over nothing.

Tbh, it would be more surprise than pleasure. We may well win, but play them off the park, now that would be something.

[Guest av1]

13 minutes ago, sne said:

True.

Like us for example.

Indeed. And we have gained Kodjia and McGinn (who by the way is now ahead of about 4 of Bruces other midfield signings), the idea that our team has been ripped apart is nonsense. 

We have lost a couple of players, just like every other club in the league. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Have we ?

Terry and Snodgrass, and Johnstone.

Grabban only started 9 or 10 games.  Axel is still here. Not sure how many Josh started but certainly not anything like  part of a regular team.

From our best/ usual eleven we have Hutton, Elmo, Chester, Jack, CH, Albert, Whelan/ Jedi/ Birkir at least. Then add in Kodja ( rega4dless of Form he’s a regular when fit) and then add on McGinn.

In addition to which it’s a squad game, not a team game, and our squad is largely unaffected by a few loan departures.

So we have most of a squad, and at least 2/3 team, that got 4 th last year.

You and i have always disagreed about the quality of our players ( except pre season last year when you were massively confident !) but as a matter of fact, not opinion, we’ve lost nothing like the amount you infer.

They may be key players, fair enough ( but McGinn already looks a more than adequate swap for Snodgrass) but as many are saying, that happens to EVERY team, EVERY season.

Now, what I Would agree with is that Bruce has certainly referred to losing half his team, and needing ‘ five or six’, and yes, wanting players to come straight into the first Team.

But those who say that’s because he can’t get performances out of a team by coaching, and instead needs better players than every other club, are given fuel by those comments, and yours.

It reads as if in some way he is doing a marvellous job with poor tools - when, poor though those tools can be, they are at least of a comparable quality to others in the League.

Additionally, how much does he contribute to under performance if he keeps pointing out what we have isn’t that good ? I’ve seen Managers do it regularly over the years, and have always preferred those that talk up their players.

It stands to reason if we “ bring better quality” in, we will probably do better. That would be the case even if I were managing us. But the idea that what we have is substandard smacks of an excuse....and it’s one I don’t think he needs. I think we will do just fine. But the sooner HE believes that, the more likely it will be.

 

 

Well my comments were centred around loss, meaning we have lost them to the overall effect on the team not just left the club.

Albert is a major loss, in terms of his form....and Kodjia is only just showing glimpses of returning to form (fingers crossed) I recognise we have a difference of opinion Terry on players.

Should Steve Bruce be responsible then for Alberts loss of form?.....all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't get Torres to perform at Chelsea, like he did at 'Pool....where has Benteke's form gone, are all his managers responsible since he left us?

I recognise Bruce's tendency to play cautious and it does my head in at times....but its not all down to him directly.

McGinn has come in and the coaching doesn't seem to have hampered him yet.....Jacks game has gone in to orbit since his injury, coaching hasn't affected him in a negative way.....too much blame is put on that.

I witnessed a kid come on for Leeds tonight (18) ( Jamie Shackleton) he created their first goal and ran like a steam train at Swansea, sure he faded a bit.....but that's what players have to do.....Green is more than capable of doing that, but he don't .....as yet.....They have to have belief in themselves and yes the manager should help with that.

Edited August 21, 2018 by TRO

[dn1982]

Bruce seems to be a very popular bloke and this is a big asset for the club to have but his teams are awful at playing football. If he wasn’t so pig headed I think he’d admit that the coaching set up isn’t working and if he’s doesn’t address it it’ll cost him his job. I’d sack Calderwood promote Agnew and get another young enthusiastic coach in to get our players moving. 

[weedman]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

Bruce cannot improve players with coaching, he improves teams by bringing in better players, he will struggle to do that to the extent he needs to so I would imagine he won't make the end of October.

Could you not argue that Grealish has shown the best form of his career under Bruce? Likewise Hutton? Johnstone improved the longer he was here as have the likes of Adomah who had probably the best run in his career last season ("probably" because I haven't actually looked at the stats), Hourihane who has grown into the team the longer he's been here, even Chester looks twice the player he was for Baggies or under RDM. Snodgrass got himself a big money move after playing under Bruce, was subsequently bombed out of West Ham who were desperate to get rid under a different manager, back under Bruce for a season and suddenly back in the West Ham squad? 

I'm sure there are more examples especially with his other teams but that's just off the top of my head

I admit one or two of those are reaching a bit, but it's far from a fact that "Bruce cannot improve players with coaching", maybe if you'd added "as much as I want him to" then it'd carry more weight.

 

I don't want to be sounding too "pro Bruce" for fear of being ridiculed, and I'm certainly open to another manager (although I would much rather stick it out with Bruce while we sort out all the background staff this season, as we know we can at least be competitive under him, then replace him with a head coach the minute the season ends), but I simply can't agree with the stance that of a player gets worse, its because of Bruce and his "dinosaur tactics", but if a player gets better it's luck or coincidence or whatever 

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, vreitti said:

What is this nonsense? We've lost Terry and Snodgrass of last years mainstays. What am I missing? Furthermore, we are stocked with Bruce's own buys, with very few that are performing anywhere close to the required standards. 

No its nonsense to you because you disagree with it.

We currently have no forward line to talk about and you expect us to come in with performances that set the league alight.

If you are telling me that its Bruce's fault that Albert can't currently beat a man and Kodjia doesn't resemble the player he was.....Then I'm stuck for words...

Do you not recognise those 2 alone have such a big influence on our team?......Thats why he is trying to get players in.

Do you honestly think that the owners would sanction such a move to bring in players if they thought he could magic them back to form.?

 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, weedman said:

Could you not argue that Grealish has shown the best form of his career under Bruce? Likewise Hutton? Johnstone improved the longer he was here as have the likes of Adomah who had probably the best run in his career last season ("probably" because I haven't actually looked at the stats), Hourihane who has grown into the team the longer he's been here, even Chester looks twice the player he was for Baggies or under RDM. Snodgrass got himself a big money move after playing under Bruce, was subsequently bombed out of West Ham who were desperate to get rid under a different manager, back under Bruce for a season and suddenly back in the West Ham squad? 

I'm sure there are more examples especially with his other teams but that's just off the top of my head

I admit one or two of those are reaching a bit, but it's far from a fact that "Bruce cannot improve players with coaching", maybe if you'd added "as much as I want him to" then it'd carry more weight.

 

I don't want to be sounding too "pro Bruce" for fear of being ridiculed, and I'm certainly open to another manager (although I would much rather stick it out with Bruce while we sort out all the background staff this season, as we know we can at least be competitive under him, then replace him with a head coach the minute the season ends), but I simply can't agree with the stance that of a player gets worse, its because of Bruce and his "dinosaur tactics", but if a player gets better it's luck or coincidence or whatever 

I totally agree with all that.....but have the courage of your own conviction.....if you are "pro" Bruce, be "Pro" Bruce......folk have no problem being Anti.

If you believe it, say it......The worst thing that can happen to you, is being wrong.

I defend Bruce on accusations I think are wrong, but I equally accept I could be wrong......but I don't defend every aspect/action of his tenure for the sake of it.

 

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Come on TRO, read between the lines. 

do you?

Practice what you Preach.

Edited August 21, 2018 by TRO

[terrytini]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

No its nonsense to you because you disagree with it.

We currently have no forward line to talk about and you expect us to come in with performances that set the league alight.

If you are telling me that its Bruce's fault that Albert can't currently beat a man and Kodjia doesn't resemble the player he was.....Then I'm stuck for words...

Do you not recognise those 2 alone have such a big influence on our team?......Thats why he is trying to get players in.

Do you honestly think that the owners would sanction such a move to bring in players if they thought he could magic them back to form.?

 

Easier quoting you in this Post, in respect of JK and Albert, than quoting your longer reply to me.

.....I fully agree with your views on the Form of Albert and Kodja, and no, I don’t blame Bruce for their form, it happens,

. And yes they have a huge influence - well JK certainly would if he came to life, which he may be doing.

I also agree there’s no reason to expect us to set the League alight.....( very few teams do anyway) .and in my view there is no need to. Just get 2 Points agame...which I think we can do.

 

[DaveAV1]

38 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well my comments were centred around loss, meaning we have lost them to the overall effect on the team not just left the club.

Albert is a major loss, in terms of his form....and Kodjia is only just showing glimpses of returning to form (fingers crossed) I recognise we have a difference of opinion Terry on players.

Should Steve Bruce be responsible then for Alberts loss of form?.....all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't get Torres to perform at Chelsea, like he did at 'Pool....where has Benteke's form gone, are all his managers responsible since he left us?

I recognise Bruce's tendency to play cautious and it does my head in at times....but its not all down to him directly.

McGinn has come in and the coaching doesn't seem to have hampered him yet.....Jacks game has gone in to orbit since his injury, coaching hasn't affected him in a negative way.....too much blame is put on that.

I witnessed a kid come on for Leeds tonight (18) ( Jamie Shackleton) he created their first goal and ran like a steam train at Swansea, sure he faded a bit.....but that's what players have to do.....Green is more than capable of doing that, but he don't .....as yet.....They have to have belief in themselves and yes the manager should help with that.

Are you suggesting that the solution to a player out of form, is buy another one.  And that it Isn’t part of the managers duties to work with players that will inevitably have drops in form?

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Easier quoting you in this Post, in respect of JK and Albert, than quoting your longer reply to me.

.....I fully agree with your views on the Form of Albert and Kodja, and no, I don’t blame Bruce for their form, it happens,

. And yes they have a huge influence - well JK certainly would if he came to life, which he may be doing.

I also agree there’s no reason to expect us to set the League alight.....( very few teams do anyway) .and in my view there is no need to. Just get 2 Points agame...which I think we can do.

 

Terry....I agree.

Because I think we will get the players in that will transform us.....I know it sounds like I am unconditionally defending him at times, but I can assure you its not my intention.

We keep dropping points and I will soon change my tune.

When he gets reinforcements in and I am happy we have the players to do it.....I won't be quite so benevolent towards him in my posts.

However, I do recognise that fans do have their own opinions on players that are not always the same.

[terrytini]

Just now, TRO said:

Terry....I agree.

Because I think we will get the players in that will transform us.....I know it sounds like I am unconditionally defending him at times, but I can assure you its not my intention.

We keep dropping points and I will soon change my tune.

When he gets reinforcements in and I am happy we have the players to do it.....I won't be quite so benevolent towards him in my posts.

However, I do recognise that fans do have their own opinions on players that are not always the same.

A slight tangent if I may........you seem to be pretty sure there will be reinforcements, and that they will improve us.......yet by definition any player we now get on loan will be a risk anyway surely ? Is there much genuine quality out there waiting to play in the Championship ? I know we got Snodgrass last time, but Axel and Josh ? Were they really any better than our own youth ?

Not really expecting you to name players, just thinking out loud.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Are you suggesting that the solution to a player out of form, is buy another one.  And that it Isn’t part of the managers duties to work with players that will inevitably have drops in form?

Good point Dave.

I think " Weedman" has very eloquently answered that in one of his posts tonight.....Where he highlighted how players like Johnstone, Adomah ( ironically) Jack ,Chester have/had improved their games on his watch.

I think it is the duty of the manager to attempt to return a player back to form.....but that does not always mean they are successful.....In which case they have a massive task, in his case, of getting us back to the Prem.

Don't forget Albert has been on this poor run since the back of last season, we can't hang around forever.....also Bruce himself has his own job to think about.

However, we don't know that he is/isn't ,working on him to return to form and its just not working.

Edited August 21, 2018 by TRO