Popular Post praisedmambo Posted July 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2018 This he failed twice rhetoric has the desperate feel of political spin. As if it's the only thing that matters. Problem is, people are also able to remember how we were before he came in and can see he has made a huge difference. It's not black and white. Nothing ever is unless you're trying to shove your agenda down people's throats. See Farage and his ilk. It's dishonest imo. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: As for that. Lansbury and Whelan both came in for less than Tshibola alone and Hogan has been a lot more use than McCormack for the same price. I agree, and also consider the contract length and wage factor of these players and how often they start and what purpose have they served so far? Edited July 26, 2018 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Does anybody here profess to love Bruce? Why would they then hate him when he leaves? Never mind, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 2 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I don't understand all the hate for Sherwood?? Not sure hate is the right word. “Bemused contempt” sounds better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, sne said: Well according DOL we are fickle But we're an honest bunch of lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I agree, and also consider the contract length and wage factor of these players and how often they start and what purpose have they served so far? I'd say Whelan made a big difference last year. He had some objectively obviously good games. For me though it's significant to compare last year to the season before when we were incapable of winning without Jedinak. Last season, with Whelan and then Bjarnasson we didn't have that problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Never mind, again. Ok. I was just politely asking what you meant. never mind, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1 hour ago, praisedmambo said: I'd say Whelan made a big difference last year. He had some objectively obviously good games. For me though it's significant to compare last year to the season before when we were incapable of winning without Jedinak. Last season, with Whelan and then Bjarnasson we didn't have that problem at all. His last 12 games 10 wins 2 draws. Why didn't he start in final? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted July 26, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2018 AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH. AAAAAGGGGHHHHHH AAAAG-GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH Anti Brucer's, he's here now, he's been given the job. Get over it. These guys won't mess about, if he do bad he will be gone quick as a flash. If he do goood you are wrong so just give it a rest. He's here, there is nothing you can do except see him fail and be right or he will be good and you are wrong. Pro Brucer's just don't respond. He's here for now, I assume we all want what's best for Villa so can the bickering please just stop until we see how it's going? And can Anti Brucer's please stop turning every other none Bruce thread into a Bruce bashing. For the record I am sitting on the Bruce fence having been an inner to an outer last year. I am relieved it's not Henry but Bruce is now here in the seat and Villa Talk is a poorer place for the points scoring and bickering so can we please just back the manager who is here and nothing can change that till he starts failing this season? 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, sidcow said: AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH. AAAAAGGGGHHHHHH AAAAG-GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH Anti Brucer's, he's here now, he's been given the job. Get over it. These guys won't mess about, if he do bad he will be gone quick as a flash. If he do goood you are wrong so just give it a rest. He's here, there is nothing you can do except see him fail and be right or he will be good and you are wrong. Pro Brucer's just don't respond. He's here for now, I assume we all want what's best for Villa so can the bickering please just stop until we see how it's going? And can Anti Brucer's please stop turning every other none Bruce thread into a Bruce bashing. For the record I am sitting on the Bruce fence having been an inner to an outer last year. I am relieved it's not Henry but Bruce is now here in the seat and Villa Talk is a poorer place for the points scoring and bickering so can we please just back the manager who is here and nothing can change that till he starts failing this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Eastie said: Not overly happy about Bruce staying but I can see the logic of it for now with a new season only a week away - I hope he will try and play a bit more on the front foot this season and now it’s sorted I hope we can all get behind the team and hopefully add some more quality loan deals - hope you’ve had a good summer Tro - a bit too hot for old eastie Yeah except the clubs problems up to now. The recent events give us hope.....but realistically its come too late for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post andym Posted July 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, praisedmambo said: This he failed twice rhetoric has the desperate feel of political spin. As if it's the only thing that matters. Problem is, people are also able to remember how we were before he came in and can see he has made a huge difference. It's not black and white. Nothing ever is unless you're trying to shove your agenda down people's throats. See Farage and his ilk. It's dishonest imo. I always find it interesting when people talk about 'how we were before he came in', as though it somehow mitigates Bruce. We were recently relegated, but still retained one very good player in Grealish and some solid enough ones like Ayew, Baker and Hutton. We had added some experience and some of the better standard of players for this division like Chester, Jedinak, Adomah, Kodjia - even McCormack was coming off a 20 goal season. Interestingly, Cardiff and Fulham, two teams who have just beaten us for promotion had finished 8th and 20th in the Championship the season before, and we had just signed McCormack, the man who kept Fulham up. Which is the better starting point? The day Bruce took over Fulham were 4 points ahead in 14th, Cardiff were 2nd bottom on 8. Fast forward 18 months and they have both beaten us to the Premier League, in Cardiff's case on a shoestring budget. No-one is denying Bruce hasn't improved us from the position we were in when he took over, although i would argue we were underachieving given the players we had, so improvement shouldn't have been hard for the 'promotion expert'. The issue is that clubs who were in similar or worse positions at that time have improved more and overtaken us, despite not having any more resources in terms of playing staff. And now because Bruce's all in short term gamble on older heads has failed, we are probably going to be overtaken by more clubs. Edited July 26, 2018 by andym 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 After the meeting with the new owners.. he didn't speak to the media after the game. Now we signing non Steve Bruce players.. They trying to make him walk rather than sack him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 or maybe they are Bruce players whereas before we were buying Steve Round type players. I have no idea! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 We will see in the interview.. i am sure he will say he has kept an eye on him for the last year or some rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 7 hours ago, KSV said: After the meeting with the new owners.. he didn't speak to the media after the game. Now we signing non Steve Bruce players.. They trying to make him walk rather than sack him? Edens' strategy at the Bucks is to buy promising young players. I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce had been told he has to do similar and play more youth in the first team. Considering that Bruce's transfer policy of experienced pros on high wages has failed, and crippled the club financially, it makes sense to go in a different direction. The conversation with Bruce was probably something like 'we are doing this now so you can buy into it or leave'. He won't like it but he will have to abide by it if he wants to keep his job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 27, 2018 7 hours ago, KSV said: After the meeting with the new owners.. he didn't speak to the media after the game. Now we signing non Steve Bruce players.. They trying to make him walk rather than sack him? What's a non-Steve Bruce player? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, andym said: I always find it interesting when people talk about 'how we were before he came in', as though it somehow mitigates Bruce. We were recently relegated, but still retained one very good player in Grealish and some solid enough ones like Ayew, Baker and Hutton. We had added some experience and some of the better standard of players for this division like Chester, Jedinak, Adomah, Kodjia - even McCormack was coming off a 20 goal season. Interestingly, Cardiff and Fulham, two teams who have just beaten us for promotion had finished 8th and 20th in the Championship the season before, and we had just signed McCormack, the man who kept Fulham up. Which is the better starting point? The day Bruce took over Fulham were 4 points ahead in 14th, Cardiff were 2nd bottom on 8. Fast forward 18 months and they have both beaten us to the Premier League, in Cardiff's case on a shoestring budget. No-one is denying Bruce hasn't improved us from the position we were in when he took over, although i would argue we were underachieving given the players we had, so improvement shouldn't have been hard for the 'promotion expert'. The issue is that clubs who were in similar or worse positions at that time have improved more and overtaken us, despite not having any more resources in terms of playing staff. And now because Bruce's all in short term gamble on older heads has failed, we are probably going to be overtaken by more clubs. The figures you use tell only part of the story. Were any of those teams on a run of about 4 wins in 50 games as we were? Were they on their fifth boss inside a year? Did they have the kind of absolutely broken doom-ridden confidence as we had? That last sentence may seem hyperbolic to people who support other clubs, but we know it probably doesn't even go part way to summing up how broken we were. The previous five or so years had left us an absolute ruin. The team Bruce inherited may have had some expensive players but it was also full of absolute dross. When Bruce came in we were one of the biggest disasters not only in England but arguably world football! Look at the stats in the preceding years...record defeats or somesuch, record low home wins. It may be interesting to you that people bring this up but to me it's weird and disingenuous of everyone who chooses to ignore it just because they don't like the manager. I'm absolutely on the fence about Bruce but I'm not just going to ignore things to suit my agenda. Then just compare RDM and Bruce...one inexperienced manager Vs a vastly more experienced one. With RDM we won once in eleven. We only won against the worst team in the division. Bruce came in and we went immediately seven games unbeaten and in that time we won as many games as we'd won in the previous year and a bit. With RDM we were gutless and suddenly we were at least more resilient. I wish we were more attacking and dynamic but he has his ways and has turned round a broken team to one that was one win away from promotion. That's as much reality and I'd argue a lot more honest than the line 'he failed twice'. We all know we're still in the championship. We get it. We're not changing him for now so it's time to look ahead. It's also 'interesting' to list the players you mention. Before Bruce Grealish was on the slide, getting pissed and at risk of wasting his talent. He had also had about one good game for us. Even up to this Christmas, a year and a half later, the jury was well and truly still out on Grealish. Only under Bruce does he seem to have grown up. A new, professional attitude seems to have transformed him. And for the record, here's the team in Bruce's first game. It's nothing stellar and badly balanced. Beforehand RDM was trying to play Jedinak in a two. Bruce changed that. We went on to only win with Jedinak in the team. If that shows one thing it's how frikking stupid an inexperienced manager can be. I've run out of steam now. Edited July 27, 2018 by praisedmambo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: What's a non-Steve Bruce player? Anyone under the age of 35 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 27, 2018 7 hours ago, KSV said: After the meeting with the new owners.. he didn't speak to the media after the game. Now we signing non Steve Bruce players.. They trying to make him walk rather than sack him? talk about jumping to conclusions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts