Steve Bruce

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I’d be amazed if we got anywhere near £10m for adomah - probably half that is more realistic .

Mate he got 14 goals this year.  Not many midfielders can boast that in this league. I think for sure we could get close to that. McCormack went for 12m and is older

[Tomaszk]

7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Mate he got 14 goals this year.  Not many midfielders can boast that in this league. I think for sure we could get close to that. McCormack went for 12m and is older

Absolutely zero chance,

[Czechlad]

Bruce has had 2 seasons, and a huge budget to get us up and hasn't been able to do it.

You can say his first season doesn't count, but he took over in October of 2016. He had 80% of the season to at least get us to a playoff spot but couldn't.

Then this past season he got us in the playoffs. We can look back on this season and realize that there were a few matches where Bruce got it terribly wrong tactically against relegation candidate clubs and we lost. If we had won a couple more matches, we'd have taken 2nd. 

We have to move on from Bruce's football. We can't go up and hope to play hoof ball and stay in the premier league. I know people say it's a huge risk to go for someone else, but there is no point continuing with outdated tactics. 

[Digavilla]

2 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

When I refer to "tactics" maybe I should call it a system. Look at Fulham, their system relies on possession of the football. To do this they have a mobile midfield so that they can keep recycling the ball by playing triangles until they draw the opposition out of position, then they break through gaps with pacy players and with support. Those "triangles" don't happen by accident, they depend on a very well rehearsed understanding of where each player has to go next to offer himself.

Wolves have a similar well coached way of recycling a ball until they're able to create space for their pacy players to exploit. The "micro managing" happens behind closed doors on the training pitch, and the evidence of that technical 'white board' coaching has been demonstrated on the pitch.

Bruce clearly does not do "tactics" in the same way as Nuno or Jokanovic. If (as looks likely) we have to use a number of younger players next season we will need a good head coach rather than a typical manager, because younger players will need to utilise a system which they can learn in detail so as to play it instinctively and make sure that they support each other at all times. You cannot ask young players to go out and "sort it out on the pitch". We have to play as a well coached vibrant team next season, not a bunch of individuals.

 

One of the best post I have read in VT. Cheers !

[Vive_La_Villa]

 

16 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Have you been away for the last few days? If you have every media outlet is saying we have a 40m hole. It might be media bollocks but even brice has said we have to sell players so am abit concerned.

For me id rather sell adomah. I think we can get 10m for him 

If a drunken stupor counts as being away then yes I have. 

I knew things would be bad. Didn’t realise how bad. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

and whose job is it to ensure we have the players to perform to plan?

Yes, the manager.  So even in your defence of him youre pointing out his failure.

either, you don't read my posts properly or I don't explain properly.

Firstly, I don't blame Steve Bruce for many things said on here, but that does not exonerate him completely from my criticism.

I do blame him if thats the right word for not getting the shape of the team right.....I wanted to see a dominant Center forward, not the ones we have.....thats just my view, not expecting anyone to agree with me....I think the defence lacks pace and height, which has caught us out a few times.....I also think we need a more dominant midfield player to compliment Jack, I have my doubts about Jed in terms of mobility.

I just don't think all the natural ingredients are there for this league and yes.....That's  down to him.... but that is not saying good elements are already there.

Edited May 29, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, hippo said:

"Tactics don't win football matches" - Who said that ?  .........surprisingly Sir Graham Taylor.  

John Gregory also admitted that a free kick routine was "drawn up on the back of a packet of fags on the coach just before the match"

It might come down to "stay close on player xxxxx" - or "the left back is slow - you can get past him Albert" 

But the idea of the manager finely orchestrating every move from the technical area often amuses me. 

 

Its what I have banging the drum on here for for ages.

There is all too much played on all this.....games are won and lost due to players, performing or not performing.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, hippo said:

"Tactics don't win football matches" - Who said that ?  .........surprisingly Sir Graham Taylor.  

John Gregory also admitted that a free kick routine was "drawn up on the back of a packet of fags on the coach just before the match"

It might come down to "stay close on player xxxxx" - or "the left back is slow - you can get past him Albert" 

But the idea of the manager finely orchestrating every move from the technical area often amuses me. 

 

No they don't. They make adjustments and react to the game. The orchestrating of moves, tactics and patterns of play are done on the training ground and pre season, it is part of the culture of football clubs. 

It amuses me, that those who always seem to defend a manager the most, often seem to think a manager does very little. Wonder why that pep fella keeps getting top jobs.

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its what I have banging the drum on here for for ages.

There is all too much played on all this.....games are won and lost due to players, performing or not performing.

Then why do you care if Bruce stays or not? If he has so little influence why jump to his defence every single time? Why have any opinion on managers?

[thabucks]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.fourfourtwo.com/features/long-read-guardiolas-16-point-blueprint-dominance-his-methods-management-and-tactics%3f_format=amp

Pep has Millions so he can buy world class players but this article highlights all the hard work Honing the system snd tactics spent on the training field 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

 

Quote

 

'Sentiment, goodwill and history do not get you promoted' - What Aston Villa must do next

AVFC blogger Alex Berwick has his say on Steve Bruce - and the future of Aston Villa

I need to begin by saying that I didn’t want Steve Bruce to be our manager, and didn’t think his style of play would be suitable for getting out of the Championship. The league has moved on, and despite his excellent past record, that’s what it is - a thing of the past.

But this isn’t an ‘I told you so’ piece. I’d much rather be wrong & be in the Premier League. And Bruce has grown on me in so many ways. He gets the club, and has steered the tanker away from the rocks through sheer determination and hard work.

 

He comes across as an exceptionally lovely guy, who’s handled this season and his recent, awful personal turmoil with the great grace & dignity he handles everything. His transfer dealings have been impressive in many ways on a tight budget and as Mat (Kendrick) wrote so eloquently yesterday, there is an affinity between the players & supporters that has been far too absent in previous years.

For all of this he deserves our thanks and praise. I really, really wish yesterday would have been different for him as much as us. He deserves better.

 

But this morning, we’re looking at a very different Aston Villa. I saw relegation as a chance to freshen the club up, and to rebuild it from the start. That hasn’t been the approach - instead it’s been about sticking plasters in an attempt to get us up as quickly as possible.

That hasn’t happened, and whether we like it or not, the whole club will need to operate differently from today on. We can’t spend our way out, can’t keep paying big wages, and need to start working on a longer term plan for the club. We’re two years on from relegation, and we’ve not achieved what those at the top of the club set out to. Those are now the facts.

In that respect, do we currently have the right manager to move this club forward? We have to have a younger, vibrant team who more often than not try and play on the front foot. Look at our opponents yesterday. They’ve built a really attractive progressive team with pace, flair and movement.

 

A lot of people sneered at comments from the Fulham staff this week, but they weren’t too far wide of the mark. The better footballing team won, and in the first half especially it looked like there was far more between the teams than one league place and five points. This has to be the model we now follow.

I’m not a hopeless idealist. I appreciate you can’t play 49 games like that, and that young players will make mistakes and go missing on occasions. But we need to take yesterday as an opportunity to create a long term plan for the club. Sentiment, good-will and history do not get you promoted.

The good sides in this league this year have played without fear and tried to attack. They’ve not been afraid of the ball, and crucially for Wolves and Fulham, they’ve developed a style that is suited to the league they are going into. The game plan yesterday, as it has been for much of this season, was to keep things tight & try & nick something off a set piece or hope for a moment of magic. That we nearly got one is a testament to the players we have, but it’s not a sustainable style of football. It’s remarkable it’s carried us as far as it has.

Bruce has been right about many things, and we as supporters have a role to play in this. Teams with lesser expectations can play without fear because their supporters allow it. We have to accept that mentality if we want to see change. We have no divine right to be up the top because we’re Aston Villa and allow players to make mistakes.

They need to feel able to express themselves to succeed. His assertion that you need a certain type of character to succeed at this club is true. We have a duty to help change that mindset, and to support our younger players.

But I can’t get excited about another year like this one - often on the back foot and hoping the experience will see us through. It’s an approach of diminishing returns, and as we saw yesterday, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This will be a hard summer for Aston Villa. We have to make sure - whoever is in charge - the club has a long term vision, and a team ready to have another crack at promotion at the end of it.

Have a great summer. Up The Villa.

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sentiment-goodwill-history-not-you-14717442.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[holteend1982]

1 hour ago, Czechlad said:

Bruce has had 2 seasons, and a huge budget to get us up and hasn't been able to do it.

You can say his first season doesn't count, but he took over in October of 2016. He had 80% of the season to at least get us to a playoff spot but couldn't.

 

His first season doesn't count because when he took over we was in the relegation zone, we was a complete mess and he turned that around. Those who expected promotion in the first season especially after that start show the kind of unrealistic expectation a lot of our fans hold. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, holteend1982 said:

His first season doesn't count because when he took over we was in the relegation zone, we was a complete mess and he turned that around. Those who expected promotion in the first season especially after that start show the kind of unrealistic expectation a lot of our fans hold. 

And i'm guessing this season didn't count because we need to remember what a mess we were for years and we got to the playoffs.

Next season won't count because we are a club in transition and the cow jumped over the moon etc. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

52 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Then why do you care if Bruce stays or not? If he has so little influence why jump to his defence every single time? Why have any opinion on managers?

I am not sure quite what you mean?

I am disagreeing with certain types of crticism of him..... I have my own reservations of what he has done and I wouldn't expect you to agree, because it opens up another debate.

To just come out and say he has failed, he is shite, his tactics are antiquated, didn't want him in the first place, he's TOO negative, etc,etc,etc.

I just simply disagree with all that and that type of criticise.

I think Steve Bruce has done some really good things for us in 18 months of rising from the swamp.....has it got us to where we want to be right now no....and that is sore on us.....but some of the things that have been thrown at him I disagree with.

I still think our team is lacking ingredients and it may have cost us......you won't change my view.

He buys players and has to be responsible for those signings....but once he has bought them, he can't make them run any faster or stand any taller if they are failing to win headers...those things though can lose us games.

•  So He is responsible for the Signing
• But where I disagree is....once he has done it, he can't necessarily change it.

I think our team we have just completed the season with has many good attributes but lack in others too.

• Johnstone Kicking is poor
• Hutton drives on well , good in the air lacks positional nous, great attitude....getting on in years.
• Terry great Pro, legs have now gone, not now the dominance in the air he once was.....love the guy to bits, reads the game well, but not quite the player he was interms of individual errors.
• Chester good Awareness, reads the game well, iffy in the air, due to lack of height in the main, indecisive on the ball moving forward when being challenged.
• Elmohamady, links well with Snodgrass, takes the easy option, not great in the challenge, not dynamic very safety first.
• Hourihane, Not great on the ball, has energy, not great Vision, passing is average, scores from set pieces, good when the going is good, not so goos when its not.
• Jack Grealish, say no more, perhaps our most complete player, but doesn't score enough goals, perhaps down to players around him, he has to do too much pitch craft.
• Jedinak, powerful in the air, great cover for the centre backs ,but not mobile enough to support the midfield sufficiently
• Adomah, has to pick up th ball too deep and attracts challenges, should be operating further up the pitch, no one to really aim for with any aerial ability, skill diluted.
• Grabban , works hard running around the lines, scores goals on occasions, a bit non-descript form not a clearly defined enough role, is easiliy negated by strong and powerful defenders...but not what we need IMO
• Hogan, Just not the right type of player for us, will maybe thrive better with a team more committed to deploying more players to attack.
• Kodjia, Not sure I am seeing the player i once knew before injury, once again, present state a bit non-descript.
• Snodgrass works like a trojan, great attitude, but lacks pace and subsequently struggles to get free of challenges, specialist at dead ball situations.

I am not suggesting other team players do not have shortfalls, but collectively we are short on pace and lack aerial prowess in key areas...sometimes first touch is iffy.

teams going for promotion, usually have a contrast in individual playing styles that come together in a team to make it close to complete....In my humble opinion, we have too many samey players that have similar shortfalls that ultimately affect the team as a whole.

I do agree with those fans that say, the style of football is negatively questionable at times.....I agree.....where i am dubious is, that I think the problem lies in what his players are capable of doing as opposed to him wanting it done that way....but we all have our views.

We all have our views guys.... and thats mine.

Where we go from here is the most important thing....its gone now, we have to look forward.....If its a new manager, so be it.

To make some young fans feel happier.....when we won the European cup the team was almost immediately dismantled due to politics.....so nothing is sacred, for one reason or another.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sentiment-goodwill-history-not-you-14717442.amp?__twitter_impression=true

I think that is a very good round up.....I think he is right the pressure of getting back up due to the finances has backfired.

Easy for me to say, I don't have to run the club.

I think we now need a rethink on getting the right footballing  philosophies in place...and not beat ourselves up at every juncture to gain promotion.

It will only happen when we get it right, where it matters on the pitch.

Not sure what he means about football moving on....Cardiff  was not exactly innovative.....so for me there is a clear contrast in styles of teams who have gained promotion.

I must admit I prefer the Fulham, Wolves approach, but its not exclusive.

Where i think we went wrong and we did a lot right.....We was neither one thing or the other.

[TRO]

54 minutes ago, thabucks said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.fourfourtwo.com/features/long-read-guardiolas-16-point-blueprint-dominance-his-methods-management-and-tactics%3f_format=amp

Pep has Millions so he can buy world class players but this article highlights all the hard work Honing the system snd tactics spent on the training field 

Of course it does....but the players have to be capable of doing what he is asking......one needs the other.

He can afford to buy them that can do it.

Phone him up and ask him to come and work his magic on us .....you know a kinda "jim'll fix it" kinda season....see what he says.

sorry i had to use that analogy.

I have already heard him speak on this very subject....He champions the players....he said he can't do it without them.

Edited May 29, 2018 by TRO

[jim]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its what I have banging the drum on here for for ages.

There is all too much played on all this.....games are won and lost due to players, performing or not performing.

In that case, why have a manager? 

[holteend1982]

30 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

And i'm guessing this season didn't count because we need to remember what a mess we were for years and we got to the playoffs.

Next season won't count because we are a club in transition and the cow jumped over the moon etc. 

No this season counted perfectly fine, we came close and missed out. 

So did you actually expect to get promoted after that start we had? With all the deadwood in that team? It was far to unrealistic in my opinion. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, jim said:

In that case, why have a manager? 

because managers do some things and players do others.

Steve Bruce has done many good things for us.....He is not all Shite and that is the essence of my posts.

If he is criticized for things I agree with I will say.

But to be honest Jim, the criticism that i read, I generally don't agree with....a Manager is the sum of many parts.

Take Neil Warnock as an example....some things I hate him for, some things I like him for....overall, he ok in my book, i think he means well, but his passion gets the better of him at times

just my opinion Jim FWIW.

I just happen to see things in a game and find it difficult to blame the manager directly for......some find it easy.....their call.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, holteend1982 said:

No this season counted perfectly fine, we came close and missed out. 

So did you actually expect to get promoted after that start we had? With all the deadwood in that team? It was far to unrealistic in my opinion. 

To be honest HE1982.....I thought we had shortfalls in us all season, but I think the injuries may have left us a bridge too far.....The QPR game was a massive disappointment for me, The Bolton game was pants and the Norwich game gave me grave doubts....but we rallied.

I think the model (in age )we set up was a bit too much for them 49 games in the league.

Edited May 29, 2018 by TRO