Steve Bruce

[Johnnyp]

3 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

He's the right man for the job as far as I'm concerned, but I wouldn't be against considering other options. 

Bruce has built a team lacking pace up front and unable to retain possession against better teams. That's down to personnel as much as tactics I think. Bruce does seem to be able to get the most out of his players, at least in terms of commitment. 

The pressure now is on Steve Round and his team, what a horrible job they have this summer. Cut costs and recruit players capable of a promotion push . 

I think Villa are starting to build a footballing identity, that's what Round has spoken about in the past. I'm not 100% what that looks like just yet, I think it needs to  evolve. Whatever we do, we need to be true to our identity, so that means knowing what style of football we want our managers to play. If we do bring someone else we can't expect them to box another teams style for example Fulham or Wolves and make it work here. If we want that, we need to spend time working towards it. 

Your not 100 % sure what it looks like. Im not trying to be funny or point scoring here but im not 2% sure what it looks like.

[tonyh29]

2 minutes ago, KJT123 said:

If we have exactly the same squad as this year, as well as a fit Grealish for the whole season, I have no doubt in my mind we'll get automatic promotion next year with Bruce as manager.

But we're going to lose Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban and maybe even Grealish.

Is Bruce capable of dealing with that? Not a chance.

But then again, getting a new exciting manager in for the start of the season is going to be a risk. Look at Fulham this year - they only clicked at the end of November. We could get a new manager in and we might be out of the picture even before the halfway point.

We will have some money so we could realistically buy Johnstone , if he wants to stay

I thought I read Axel is having another loan season with us so he could pair with Chester , Bree or alhamedy at RB and an other at left back though we may be stuck with Taylor 

 

green left wing , Grealish and Hourihane /Thor/Lansbury /o’hare in the middle adomah on the right 

Kodjia / Davis /hogan / R HM up top

its not a terrible team at the end of the day , though I’d replace Lansbury and Hourihane if we could 

a progressive manager could work with that I’m sure 

 

[markavfc40]

I have listened to a few of his interviews from yesterday and the thing that most stood out is him saying we were too cautious and negative in the first half. He said he didn't know if that was the heat or the occasion so suggesting it wasn't the intention or part of the plan. I think he needs to be honest with himself here. The way we played in the first half yesterday is the way we have played in numerous games this season be it for a whole game or the odd half. He has to look at himself and how he is setting the team up and what he is instructing the players to do be it in the lead up to games or at half time. It is clearly a tactic to play on the back foot and focus on negating the opposition as it happens so often. 

If he is to stay that over emphasis on stopping the opposition rather than pushing the positives of what his players can do and putting the opposition on the back foot right from the get go has to change. I am not sure he is capable of initiating that change though and suspect being so long in the tooth that he isn't.

Not that it matters but I have given Bruce a bit of a bashing this morning and it doesn't sit comfortably with me as I think he is very decent man who does his best. You only have to listen to the recent interview with Grealish to know what the players think of him. Added to that he has been through a lot this season losing both his parents but never gave less than his all for us. There is no room for sentiment I guess though in terms of what is best for the club going forward.

Edited May 27, 2018 by markavfc40

[TRO]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

We'd all agree with that. The question is then do you think the manager we have now is capable of establishing a clear identity and clear way of playing. As you alluded to in another post for a start we need to start games on the front foot and stop being so cautious and so focused on stopping the opposition.

We don't have a defined style of play. We are just as likely to play as we did against Wolves, Bristol, Sha at home as we are against Wolves, Norwich, Hull away. Yesterday summed us up a treat in the way we played first half to the way we played in the second.

Bruce is not an unknown entity. He is 58 years old. Can he suddenly put a side together, with reduced finances, to consistently play on the front foot and take the game to the opposition week in week out. Or will he always end up resorting to what has always been his default for pretty much 20 years in management which is firstly to negate the opposition and then hope to take a chance at the other end. I think it is a stretch to say he will change what he has done , and what in fairness has worked at this level especially, throughout his managerial career.

For me you can forget Bruce changing his style and doing any different to what he has always done. It is then whether you think what he has done this season is capable of taking us one step further next season. If you don't then you have to want him out.

 

Yeah...I get that.

Lets go back to the start of his reign....He clearly had an issue with the toxic attitude on the playing side of the club.....He then set about recruiting characters, that he felt were clearly lacking, Leaders to influence the younger players like Jack Grealish, who has come on leaps and bounds with this format.

The trade off of all that is these players are getting older, every season, slower and less resistent to physicality and injuries( I don't think John Terry has come back from his Met quite as imposing as he was prior to it, just my opinion.).....46 games is bad enough then to add a challenging 3 more, may have been a bridge too far....so he plans to conserve energy.

Now I am not saying he is right or wrong Mark, just saying what I THINK happened.

Personally I think our players are too samey.....what I mean by that is, too many have the same shortfalls.....a team should be a mix of ingredients that make a whole, I don't think we are....not enough contrast for me.

I accept that Steve Bruce is responsible for all that and I cannot dismiss your theory that he may not change sufficiently in his thinking to give us any confidence going forward.....He needs to address these issues and I guess he will be given his time to explain with the board....whether he is convincing enough to give us all confidence, I don't know.

I am not trying to create a defence mechanism for him, just trying to be reasonable and examine all the aspects.

I watched the game like everyone else and to be honest, I never went I give my tickets to someone who had more faith than me, not happy with my decision, but the last 2 finals now 3 have tarnished my expectation. .....I was in Rotterdam and I have never missed a final, but despite me having a very decent season with my season ticket and I shall be renewing.....I have not got sufficient belief in this team to get carried away.

I know what he has tried to do.....and in some ways it has worked, we are not the laughing stock we was......but promotion, no not for me.....This team has not get the edge of the Ron Saunders team with Little and Leonard, Gidman  etc.....I had belief in that team.

Yesterdays result, did not surprise me.....The goal the way it was executed did not surprise me either, its been their trademark all season.....our initial response to the game did not surprise me.....Snodgrass's performance did surprise me a bit, Albert was just being Albert of the last 2-3 months......but this is our creative outlet, these are the two we look to....so how can we be surprised.

There is no question....Steve Bruce has to be responsible, no one else can be.

If he wants to keep his job, he needs to come out and divulge some home truths, so we can resume our ambitions.

Edited May 27, 2018 by TRO

[A'Villan]

18 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

When has he ever done that? He is a cheque-book manager.

I wouldn't know Bruce's history all that well, I know he has never managed a big club though, achieved promotion on numerous occasion, including pushing Sunderland to their highest ever league finish. What he had at his disposal during those tenures I don't know, but I imagine that Villa will still be capable of competing with any one of them, even under restriction.

He can certainly identify talent, something not to be overlooked given our recent history.

Again, I wouldn't know if Bruce has always paid a premium for his players, but given the clubs he has had, it wouldn't be anything extraordinary.

So one of the things I think he does have going for him is an ability to build a team that can compete, even at Premier League level.

It's not as if a complete overhaul is going to take place, and I think it possible, even probable, that Bruce could identify and bring in apt replacements.

Whether or not he can overcome his shortcomings is an entirely different issue, and one that I am dubious at best about. Something the club absolutely must address should we continue with him. He must be told, in the event he stays, that we have confidence in him to get the job done, but an honest review of his shortcomings must be addressed.

[ozvillafan]

Bruce was given a simple remit: Get us to the premier league.

Despite the resources at his disposal, he failed. As such, he must go.

If not, that sends a strong signal: "We are Aston Villa and we accept mediocrity and failure."

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Supervillan78 said:

I think some players let him down badly yesterday and I don't think sacking him is the right thing to do either.

I don't think sacking him is right thing to do either......but equally, he cannot continue playing halves like the first half, the second was better, but we still didn't look like scoring.

But I accept all the arguments for change.....This has to be dismantled whether we like it or not.....changes will be forced on us and in some ways it may be a god send.

I like Steve Bruce and I think he is a better manager than some give him credit for.....But I also accept that he is responsible for them and their displays.

I think perhaps he is too loyal at times, but that's just me speculating.

Edited May 27, 2018 by TRO

[A'Villan]

2 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Bruce was given a simple remit: Get us to the premier league.

Despite the resources at his disposal, he failed. As such, he must go.

If not, that sends a strong signal: "We are Aston Villa and we accept mediocrity and failure."

This irks me a bit. We are in the championship and came down as one of the poorest performers ever.

Agreed, a simple remit, and he must fall on his sword, whether he stays or goes, shortcomings must be acknowledged.

But to suggest that Bruce has been mediocre or a failure is shortsighted for me and does not take much in to account.

[A'Villan]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't.

But I accept all the arguments for change.....This has to be dismantled whether we like it or not.....changes will be forced on us and in some ways it may be a god send.

I like Steve Bruce and I think he is a better manager than some give him credit for.....But I also accept that he is responsible for them and their displays.

I think perhaps he is too loyal at times, but that's just me speculating.

Too loyal?

Can you elaborate please.

I too like Bruce but one dimensional would be my choice of words, if I understand you correctly.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

This irks me a bit. We are in the championship and came down as one of the poorest performers ever.

Agreed, a simple remit, and he must fall on his sword, whether he stays or goes, shortcomings must be acknowledged.

But to suggest that Bruce has been mediocre or a failure is shortsighted for me and does not take much in to account.

totally agree.

I think we need to calm our jets and be a bit more philosophical in our responses.

We all watched the game and we all know that those displays can't continue.....but we need to go about the next step in a prudent fashion.

all is not Broke, we have surpassed that stage.....but all is not right either.

We have progressed up the ladders lets just see if we can circumnavigate the Snakes.

[Demitri_C]

39 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why on earth wouldn't we be able to get someone like Eddie Howe? What has he ever done in football? He is the manager of Bournemouth, not Barcelona, for fuchs sake.

Well firstly they are a premier league club alone that finished twelfth meanwhile at villa we have no money a aging squad and finished 4th despite being one of those he favourites to win the league.

eddie Howe is not going to drop to the championship get real. 

Like I said if Bruce were to be dismissed and i din5 think he will. But if he was it will be someone out of work or another championship club. Someone like wilder Harris 

for me I’d go for raneri

[markavfc40]

14 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Bruce was given a simple remit: Get us to the premier league.

Despite the resources at his disposal, he failed. As such, he must go.

If not, that sends a strong signal: "We are Aston Villa and we accept mediocrity and failure."

I think that is too simplistic a way of looking at things. We came within two wins of automatic promotion. Within a whisker of going up through the play offs. I'd go as far to say had Grealish have been fit all season instead of half of it we'd have been at least six points better and promoted.

Having said that I think the squad he assembled was good enough for promotion but he didn't get enough out of them so he failed in that regard. He got that close though that based on what we did last season wouldn't for me warrant him getting the sack. Him staying or going has to be based on whether or not you think he is the right man going into next season and if you think we can attract someone more able to get us promoted.

Either way the club need to come out in the next few days and confirm he is staying or sack him.

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Too loyal?

Can you elaborate please.

I too like Bruce but one dimensional would be my choice of words, if I understand you correctly.

I am not trying to tell football managers like Steve Bruce or Neil Warnock how to manage people in their squads.....but I think in Steve's place a bit more decisive withdrawal or sticking with players when the same issues are being played out.....was questionable.

Example....Was Elmohamady recovered from his injury?.....is he that good we cannot leave him out?.....Was Bree that bad in his previous game, he had to be left out?.....I am not knocking or underplaying experience ,but it is no substitute for good play......A good player will have little respect for experience they will just impose themselves.....I just think Steve is just a bit too reliant on experience to his cost.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by TRO

[Villarocker]

28 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I have listened to a few of his interviews from yesterday and the thing that most stood out is him saying we were too cautious and negative in the first half. He said he didn't know if that was the heat or the occasion so suggesting it wasn't the intention or part of the plan. I think he needs to be honest with himself here. The way we played in the first half yesterday is the way we have played in numerous games this season be it for a whole game or the odd half. He has to look at himself and how he is setting the team up and what he is instructing the players to do be it in the lead up to games or at half time. It is clearly a tactic to play on the back foot and focus on negating the opposition as it happens so often. 

If he is to stay that over emphasis on stopping the opposition rather than pushing the positives of what his players can do and putting the opposition on the back foot right from the get go has to change. I am not sure he is capable of initiating that change though and suspect being so long in the tooth that he isn't.

Not that it matters but I have given Bruce a bit of a bashing this morning and it doesn't sit comfortably with me as I think he is very decent man who does his best. You only to listen to the recent interview with Grealish to know what the players think of him. Added to that he has been through a lot this season losing both his parents but never gave less than his all for us. There is no room for sentiment I guess though in terms of what is best for the club going forward.

During the last bad spell the fans were moaning about how negative we are and that we shouldn't play that way. Lessons needed to be learned but they weren't because that first half yesterday was exactly the same as that away at Wolves, back in October.

Pace and height are our weaknesses. The lack of height and pace in the central defensive areas is killing us. He plays Jedinak to give the added height at the back and he's slower than both Chester and Terry and because of that we have the full backs tucking in to protect them and then the wingers come back to cover the full backs, nullifying our attacking threat and inviting pressure. 

We needed to replace Jedinak with Bjarnason at half time yesterday and get Kodjia on earlier than he did. We lacked pace and that cost us dearly. That needs to change. No more Jedinak and Terry please. Bring a faster, taller centre back in to partner Chester and either stick with Bjarnason in front of the back four or buy/loan another player to play there. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, villarocker said:

During the last bad spell the fans were moaning about how negative we are and that we shouldn't play that way. Lessons needed to be learned but they weren't because that first half yesterday was exactly the same as that away at Wolves, back in October.

Pace and height are our weaknesses. The lack of height and pace in the central defensive areas is killing us. He plays Jedinak to give the added height at the back and he's slower than both Chester and Terry and because of that we have the full backs tucking in to protect them and then the wingers come back to cover the full backs, nullifying our attacking threat and inviting pressure. 

We needed to replace Jedinak with Bjarnason at half time yesterday and get Kodjia on earlier than he did. We lacked pace and that cost us dearly. That needs to change. No more Jedinak and Terry please. Bring a faster, taller centre back in to partner Chester and either stick with Bjarnason in front of the back four or buy/loan another player to play there. 

Precisely my thoughts too.

We cannot afford to have players specifically playing to protect others in the manner we do.....they are either good enough in all aspects of their play or they are not.....its is disrupting the shape of our team

[mykeyb]

Steve has built a team that is far too slow, the amount of times we broke in the second half and we were caught by the time we got just passed half way.

We have the nucleus of a team that can compete for promotion, we have some good youngsters who can supplement that, we need to move out a few and hope that we can unearth a few gems in transfers

[briny_ear]

23 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Bruce was given a simple remit: Get us to the premier league.

Despite the resources at his disposal, he failed. As such, he must go.

If not, that sends a strong signal: "We are Aston Villa and we accept mediocrity and failure."

I suspect his remit when he first took over was in reality "stop us slipping into a relegation battle and keep us in the Championship". 

Important to remember how bad things were at the start. He has stopped the drift and created a side that proved almost capable of getting promotion.

Whether that is good enough, whether he has earned a further shot at getting us promoted, and whether he will even want to try given the very changed circumstances we anticipate for next season, I'm genuinely not sure at present. As one or two others have said, I'd like to see the alternatives. So far we seem to have Eddie Howe (hardly likely) and Dean Smith (not good enough tbf) put forward as options. Unless there is someone a lot better on the cards, I would not be averse to Bruce having another season.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Steve has built a team that is far too slow, the amount of times we broke in the second half and we were caught by the time we got just passed half way.

We have the nucleus of a team that can compete for promotion, we have some good youngsters who can supplement that, we need to move out a few and hope that we can unearth a few gems in transfers

I think we have a few attributes in our play that are questionable for me....and particularly apparent in this league.

Slow is one of them.....painfully at times.

[briny_ear]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not trying to tell football managers like Steve Bruce or Neil Warnock how to manage people in their squads.....but I think in Steve's place a bit more decisive withdrawal or sticking with players when the same issues are being played out.....

Example....Was Elmohamady recovered from his injury?.....is he that good we cannot leave him out?.....Was Bree that bad in his previous game, he had to be left out?.....I am not knocking or underplaying experience ,but it is no substitute for good play......A good player will have little respect for experience they will just impose themselves.....I just think Steve is just a bit too reliant on experience to his cost.

 

Interesting. Do you think the inclusion of Elmohamady yesterday was the (or a) key factor that lost us the game? I hadn't really identified that as an issue. It only makes sense to pick your best players if they are fit, doesn't it? If that's interpreted as misplaced loyalty, I'm a bit confounded.

[Eastie]

50 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I wouldn't know Bruce's history all that well, I know he has never managed a big club though, achieved promotion on numerous occasion, including pushing Sunderland to their highest ever league finish. What he had at his disposal during those tenures I don't know, but I imagine that Villa will still be capable of competing with any one of them, even under restriction.

He can certainly identify talent, something not to be overlooked given our recent history.

Again, I wouldn't know if Bruce has always paid a premium for his players, but given the clubs he has had, it wouldn't be anything extraordinary.

So one of the things I think he does have going for him is an ability to build a team that can compete, even at Premier League level.

It's not as if a complete overhaul is going to take place, and I think it possible, even probable, that Bruce could identify and bring in apt replacements.

Whether or not he can overcome his shortcomings is an entirely different issue, and one that I am dubious at best about. Something the club absolutely must address should we continue with him. He must be told, in the event he stays, that we have confidence in him to get the job done, but an honest review of his shortcomings must be addressed.

No idea who told you that but He certainly never got Sunderland to their highest ever league finish .

Edited May 27, 2018 by Eastie