Steve Bruce

[Rob182]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Was it? I don't remember many fans, pundits or messages from the club saying anything like that. 

 

 

I do. I remember loads of our fans genuinely concerned that we could drop down again. 19th after 11 games, 10 points on the board, 1 win in 3 months, on a run of DDLDDDDL, between 17th & 19th in the table for a run of 6 games when RDM was sacked, 3 clean sheets in 11 games, our big money signings in McCormack & Kodjia had scored 3 in 11 between them.

 

Worst of all (in my opinion), was that it started to feel like our problems of the year before had not left us, despite dropping into an easier League. Whenever we went ahead in a game, we could just tell that we wouldn’t hang onto the lead. Which was the case, until Bruce sorted the defence out.

 

Obviously we all knew that it was early in the season, but you just don’t know in this league. Sunderland have been down the bottom for 26 games now, and 15 games ago they might have thought ‘it’s a long season’, but they’ve not sorted themselves out.

[markavfc40]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Was it? I don't remember many fans, pundits or messages from the club saying anything like that. 

 

 

At the time Bruce was appointed then no. It was all very positive as you'd expect.

In March 2017 though Wyness was interviewed and said no one had realised just how much of a mess the club was in and for months every draw they opened contained a problem.

I think from owner down to supporters most of us were carried along on a wave of optimism, new owner, new manager, new CEO, and that if we spend a fortune for this level we can right 6 years of wrongs. It was never a quick fix though and certainly not when at least half of that 55 mill initial gross spend was wasted.

I don't know if this harping back helps though does it and dragging up what should or should not have been done in the past. It can't be changed. We are where we are and at present that is in a very decent position with plenty to play for and much to be optimistic about. Maybe we should all focus on that and on what we can do as supporters to help push the club back to where we all want it to be.

Edited January 14, 2018 by markavfc40

[Dave J]

58 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Because he looked useless of course. As I’ve said in my post, RDM’s goal was promotion, and of course the club want an immediate return, but when your new manager has us dangerously close to the drop and conceding goals left, right & centre, a new manager will surely be told ‘get us safe - and then try to get promotion’.

 

I take it you think that Chris Coleman has been tasked with promotion for Sunderland this season too?

No I certainly do not think that - but I also fundamentally believe that Bruce was tasked with getting promotion last season - it's clear to me otherwise as I say why get rid of RDM after 11 games. I feel sure that a poll of supporters would indicate a mindset that Bruce would have been given this as a target 

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I do. I remember loads of our fans genuinely concerned that we could drop down again. 19th after 11 games, 10 points on the board, 1 win in 3 months, on a run of DDLDDDDL, between 17th & 19th in the table for a run of 6 games when RDM was sacked, 3 clean sheets in 11 games, our big money signings in McCormack & Kodjia had scored 3 in 11 between them.

 

Worst of all (in my opinion), was that it started to feel like our problems of the year before had not left us, despite dropping into an easier League. Whenever we went ahead in a game, we could just tell that we wouldn’t hang onto the lead. Which was the case, until Bruce sorted the defence out.

 

Obviously we all knew that it was early in the season, but you just don’t know in this league. Sunderland have been down the bottom for 26 games now, and 15 games ago they might have thought ‘it’s a long season’, but they’ve not sorted themselves out.

I remember that also but when bruce was appointed there was no talk of just surviving. 

[NurembergVillan]

23 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Was it? I don't remember many fans, pundits or messages from the club saying anything like that. 

Quite a few posts from the first 10 pages of this very thread will jog your memory.

Lots of posters talking about wanting to just win a few games, turn things around.  Even the famous stat about 3 wins from the last 50 league games across 3 seasons.

[Rob182]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I remember that also but when bruce was appointed there was no talk of just surviving. 

I’ve not said there was. There were concerns for our Chanpionship status, but Bruce had two aims, in my opinion: keep us up & get us promoted.

[DCJonah]

22 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Quite a few posts from the first 10 pages of this very thread will jog your memory.

Lots of posters talking about wanting to just win a few games, turn things around.  Even the famous stat about 3 wins from the last 50 league games across 3 seasons.

I didn't say there were none. But when rdm was sacked promotion still seemed to be the aim and that was the message from the club also.

[striker]

13 hours ago, briny_ear said:

“One more step. Keep going, lads! #UTV”

This is the latest Xia tweet I can see. How does that indicate failed expectations?

 

Dr. Tony Xia

@Dr_TonyXia

It’s fine that everyone made mistakes. However I agreed we still need to work harder to improve, step by step closer to our targets. Right now I have to admit it’s still a piece of business far away to my expectations, if it’s not the worst among RECON’s different segments.

It really was the above tweet I was referring to but agree it’s not his latest.

[briny_ear]

12 hours ago, striker said:

 

Dr. Tony Xia

@Dr_TonyXia

It’s fine that everyone made mistakes. However I agreed we still need to work harder to improve, step by step closer to our targets. Right now I have to admit it’s still a piece of business far away to my expectations, if it’s not the worst among RECON’s different segments.

It really was the above tweet I was referring to but agree it’s not his latest.

And in no sense does that tweet, which I think was actually in response to a grovelling climbdown by Barry Fry for foolish comments he had made, refer to Steve Bruce failing to meet his (Xia’s) expectations, which was your initial point.

Indeed, Xia has been keen recently to ask Villa fans to be positive and get behind the team and appreciate the step by step improvement that is happening. 

[VILLAMARV]

15 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Maybe so, but presumably they came to the realisation that it hadn't been a realistic target. 

Ding Ding Ding.

Hardly matters what was said does it if it's never going to actually happen? Apart from to ticket sales in a marketing sense of course and maybe some squad mentality along the way. Everyone here took Dr Tony's exuberant claims of champions league in 5 years with a massive pinch of salt right? Are we going to hold him to account for that statement and judge his tenure here a success or failure on whether he delivers on said promise? Its not about who was right or wrong in our assumptions last year as to whether we were ready or good enough to go up. We weren't.

[Demitri_C]

16 hours ago, Dave J said:

So why sack RDM - if promotion was not the goal for last season - which I fundamentally believe it was - surely RDM could have been given more time.

i will stand corrected here - but did he not say himself that this was the aim?

Are you suggesting Rdm didnt deserve the sack?

[rubberman]

45 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Ding Ding Ding.

Hardly matters what was said does it if it's never going to actually happen? Apart from to ticket sales in a marketing sense of course and maybe some squad mentality along the way. Everyone here took Dr Tony's exuberant claims of champions league in 5 years with a massive pinch of salt right? Are we going to hold him to account for that statement and judge his tenure here a success or failure on whether he delivers on said promise? Its not about who was right or wrong in our assumptions last year as to whether we were ready or good enough to go up. We weren't.

I think it was winning the Champions League in 10 years.

Last year - (ahem) consolidation

2017/18 - Promotion

2018/19 - Consolidation in PL, say 10th-14th

2019/20 - Pushing on, 6th-8th (ideally no Europa League)

2020/21 - Top 4, CL qualification

Then 5 years to settle in to our rightful place and win it.  Simple.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, DCJonah said:

After 11 games. The reason he was brought in so early was to still give us the chance of promotion and that was the talk when he arrived. Not sure why that is so funny.

We won one game in 11....There was a school of thought it could carry on and there was no sign of it ending....at that point I found it very difficult to reconcile that situation with a serious promotion push.

sure we can all live in hope and have personal wealth plans based on winning the lottery.....but its a real longshot.

I can't speak for others , but I had no  eye on promotion in the slightest.....I thought our objective was to stop the rot and instill some mental strength in the squad....which he did.

We can all look back in hindsight.....but I was genuinely worried as we could not hold on to a lead and as I say again, how anyone can interpret from that an expectation of promotion, I have no idea.

but hey.....each to their own.

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Are you suggesting Rdm didnt deserve the sack?

I don't think deserve really came in to it......It was self survival.

[lapal_fan]

16 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I remember that also but when bruce was appointed there was no talk of just surviving. 

I find it adorable how much trust and literal meaning you put into news segments coming out of the club.  

Can I interest you in Carillion shares?  I'm sure they'll be fine too, this is just a small blip.    

The club are hardly going to sell us punters shit (like, tickets 'n' stuff) if the top brass come out and say "listen lads (and ladies).. we've done shit ay we?  we've got a new fella in... but listen, we'll have done a good job just by staying in the division, so we're actually striving for mid-table safety, that alright?"

It doesn't happen.  Any news coming out of the club with put us in the most optimistic, hopefully light - unless we've suffered a bad loss, then it'll be "that was pants, we've got to do better".  

There was an incredibly small chance we could have gone up last season, but we had a cack January, and it became impossible.   

The summer was a clean slate, and we're nearly there, we just have to support the team when we can, and hope they do the rest.  

Anyway, a good win on Saturday, on another day we win 0-4 (snodgrass free-kick, jack's swinging shot, terry header go in).  It was as comfortable a 1 nil-er could be.  

We've got to beat Barnsley now, because I think we'll draw against Sheff Utd, although we've been playing well against teams around us (bar Wolves & Cardiff). 

 

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Are you suggesting Rdm didnt deserve the sack?

Let's put it another way - there were times last season when Bruce was no better than RDM around this time last year 

11 games in I would suggest that's not a very long time to judge and feeds into my belief that Bruce was tasked to achieve promotion last season otherwise as I have said why did the club sack RDM

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Dave J said:

Let's put it another way - there were times last season when Bruce was no better than RDM around this time last year 

11 games in I would suggest that's not a very long time to judge and feeds into my belief that Bruce was tasked to achieve promotion last season otherwise as I have said why did the club sack RDM

Difference was results did not improve. We won ONE game under RDM (against the worst team on the league at home)

Under bruce he picked up more wins in same length of time and bruce bounced back when results were not going so well.

I think the goal was play offs/settled aide for push this year. I don't think it was play offs and sack as long as their was improvement which there was.

 

 

[Michael118]

Quote

The season starts here - Bruce

Oct 13, 2016.

"It feels like the season's starting all over again," says Villa CEO Wyness.

Teams have come back from further back than Villa to win promotion and starting with two derby games in his first four matches - against Wolves on Saturday and Birmingham at St Andrews on October 30 - Bruce shares that feeling of optimism, in spite of their league position.

Previous boss Roberto Di Matteo was scoffed at for saying they could still make the play offs shortly before his departure, but Bruce with his promotion winning record, is speaking from experience.

"If I'd don't think I couldn't do it, I wouldn't be here," he added.

"There's no honeymoon period. We've got 35 games to go. That's a lot of time to do something. 

"When I came to Birmingham in 2001, we were 15th at Christmas and still got up via the play offs.

"Let's be honest added Bruce "Villa could easily be 9 or 10 points better off, if games lasted 85 minutes.

"Is it a mentality thing? Or does it happen too many times to be a confidence thing. If you've only won four times in fifty odd games people can get nervous".

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37646701

[DCJonah]

31 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I find it adorable how much trust and literal meaning you put into news segments coming out of the club.  

Can I interest you in Carillion shares?  I'm sure they'll be fine too, this is just a small blip.    

The club are hardly going to sell us punters shit (like, tickets 'n' stuff) if the top brass come out and say "listen lads (and ladies).. we've done shit ay we?  we've got a new fella in... but listen, we'll have done a good job just by staying in the division, so we're actually striving for mid-table safety, that alright?"

It doesn't happen.  Any news coming out of the club with put us in the most optimistic, hopefully light - unless we've suffered a bad loss, then it'll be "that was pants, we've got to do better".  

There was an incredibly small chance we could have gone up last season, but we had a cack January, and it became impossible.   

The summer was a clean slate, and we're nearly there, we just have to support the team when we can, and hope they do the rest.  

Anyway, a good win on Saturday, on another day we win 0-4 (snodgrass free-kick, jack's swinging shot, terry header go in).  It was as comfortable a 1 nil-er could be.  

We've got to beat Barnsley now, because I think we'll draw against Sheff Utd, although we've been playing well against teams around us (bar Wolves & Cardiff). 

 

Laughing at your own jokes. One of them then, good to know.

I did put trust in what they said, what bruce said, what a lot of fans believed and what the majority of media outlets said. The overwhelming message was that promotion was the goal last season, we also had a january transfer window that would support that.

Then when promotion was clearly not going to happen, bruce publicly insisted that we should finish top 10, we didn't but i guess that was a lie as well then because everyone was happy with survival. 

Find it very odd that while he is doing well at the moment, there's a rewrite of the perception of the club at that time to defend him for a previous year. Odd or adorable, can't decide yet. 

 

[Michael118]

Dec 17, 2016

Quote

"To be fair to the players, we're two points short of the target I set when I walked through the door. A club like ours has to be looking at two points a game at least to give us a chance".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/17/steve-bruce-no-illusions-hard-task-restoring-fallen-giant-aston/

Bruce's record up until this point was 18 points from 10 games.

2 points per game after Bruce's arrival last season would have given us 80 points which going by the previous season was a comfortable spot in the play offs.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Michael118