Vive_La_Villa Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Wolves are going to tear us a new one in my opinion with all their goals coming from our left. Bruce will really feel the pressure then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: I disagree, wholeheartedly. If you don't think Villa was one of if not the toughest jobs out there then you've had your head in the sand for the past 5+ years. And many many top managers would still walk over hot coals to sit in the hot seat at VP - maybe we have to agree to disagree but please bear in mind I'm no Warnock fan ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeAVFC said: If we take points off the likes of Wolves, Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday in the coming weeks then I'll believe we truly are on the right road. But until then it's impossible to tell if he's turning it around or not. A few weeks ago I was certain it was a matter of time before he got the boot. Pretty much sums it up for me! Beating a lowly Barnsley followed by a lucky win over struggling Forest and a ground out win against struggling Bolton didn't get overjoyed. However, start beating the teams at the top end of the table and he will start to convince me he has got the players performing the way he wants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I think it is based on a bit more than hope mate. In fact a lot more. He is a very experienced manger, has had great success at this level with 4 promotions on his CV the last of which was 16 months ago. As a player he captained one of the biggest clubs in the world so you'd like to think would know all about handling expectation. His record both as a leader on the pitch and a manager off it at this level, both recent and past, is excellent. For me you are therefore doing those that back him a big disservice by suggesting they are doing it based on a wing and a prayer. I think we'd all acknowledge that his time here hasn't been great but overall it hasn't been poor either. He has taken 71 points in 46 games which equates to a full season. That amount points would be around 5 short of the usual amount of points needed for a play off spot and 14 short of automatic. Under him then despite him inheriting a mess, despite him inheriting a club that had won 5 games in 18 months, not won an away game in 14 months, a club riddled with a losers mentality we aren't far away. In fact if we base it on the last 8 games where we are unbeaten and on a winning run of 4 games I'd say we are very close to achieving success under him. All of the above isn't to say he hasn't made mistakes because he has. He has taken too long to decide on a formation and has chopped and changed it way too much and he was also way too cautious for too long. Now that he appears to have corrected both those errors then at this point I see little to criticize him for. Good post. i would add to this that the club was rotten to the core and if not for the Doctor Tony Xia we would be in league 1 or 2. You do not click your fingers and hey presto shazzam we are world beaters after years of crap. Steve Bruce has the nouse to get us out of this league....imo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: How have I made a rod for my own back? in what way mate? I don't have a burning desire either way with Bruce in fairness. For the best part of his time here I have been on the fence in terms of how well I think he will do. What I do want though, and more importantly what this club desperately needs is some stability. We can't keep chopping and changing managers. That almost certainly leads to another overhaul of the squad and another period of transition. We need to give someone a real fair crack of the whip and back him through poor periods and I think that need for stability is why the board have stuck with him. I look at Bruce and I look at his record and at this level at least it is excellent. I can't believe that you become yesterdays man a year after your last promotion. I think he must still know what it takes to get out of this division and for me the standard isn't that good and hasn't moved on that much to think that his ways won't work again. I look at his time here and overall despite us not playing to anything like the potential in the squad for the majority of his time here we have still amassed an amount of points that over a season would leave you just outside the top 6. The recent form has been excellent in terms of results, performances and the increasing confidence and belief in the players. I combine all of this, the distant past, the recent past, the present and see no reason why he can't achieve what we want him to which is promotion. If he doesn't so be it we move on to the next manager but I don't see me believing the manager can achieve success here as me making a rod for my own back. I'm just alluding to the fact that the post could come back to haunt you . Hopefully it won't, hence , " fingers crossed " . It seems to me , your of the view we've turned a corner , if so ,then about time , I say . When the final whistle blows on Saturday ,let's hope that corner hasn't led us into a Cul de sac ,because if we are where you think we are ,we should be going there on Saturday looking for nothing less than three points . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: I'm just alluding to the fact that the post could come back to haunt you . Hopefully it won't, hence , " fingers crossed " . It seems to me , your of the view we've turned a corner , if so ,then about time , I say . When the final whistle blows on Saturday ,let's hope that corner hasn't led us into a Cul de sac ,because if we are where you think we are ,we should be going there on Saturday looking for nothing less than three points . I am obviously not certain we have turned a corner. What I do know is that when Bruce arrived we were still going backwards. He stopped that and then the task was to get us going forwards. I think that has taken longer than he and others at the club initially thought it would but as Wyness stated in March the club was in way worse shape than any of them initially thought and every draw they opened contained a problem. We do now have some forward momentum. 8 without defeat, 4 wins on the spin, some very decent performances in that run, plenty of grit and determination and visibly the players looks like they are more confident than I have seen players in our shirt for a long time and they look like they believe. I agree we should go to Wolves on Saturday looking for the 3 points. We need to continue with the same positive approach and go with a 4-4-2. That doesn't mean we will win the game as Wolves are a decent side but we certainly need to go out with that intent. Regardless what happens with Bruce my posts won't haunt me though mate. I have been wrong plenty of times about managers and players. The beauty is though someone else comes in and you then look forward and for a time at least you can believe they will be the ones to bring the relative success we all crave. Edited October 12, 2017 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I was never enamoured by Bruce's appointment . I find his football dour ,and let's be frank , free flowing football doesn't seem to be his thing ,and tbh, I don't think it ever will be ,of course, I would like nothing more than to be wrong and " haunted " ,by my lack of faith . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Wolves are going to tear us a new one in my opinion with all their goals coming from our left. Bruce will really feel the pressure then. Hurts me to think of all those great left backs we've had. Oh , for a Steve Staunton. Edited October 12, 2017 by sheepyvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 hours ago, blandy said: That's kind of the exact reverse of where I come from. I was against him being appointed, but have also thought that once he was appointed he had to be given time. And not just 20, 30, 40 games. Basically the part of last season he had, plus all of this (unless he has us down in the bottom 3 area well into it. On the football types I think we're mostly seeing a sort of "pragmatic" style, which isn't hoofball, but it's a bit limited and I don't much like it. There are signs of increased competence at least, in terms of some of the recent performances. I doubt we'll get to any trophy onslaught with him in charge, but promotion isn't impossible this season. Not being top 2 now, is not of any significance to me. Being within range of a promotion spot (top 2) is important, but I'd say we are in range just now. Yeah he's said a few daft things, but who doesn't. He shouldn't but tbh it was hardly a crime. It's not about patience so much as basically (IMO) needing to relax a bit. If people accept that he's here and will be for the next 6 months or whatever, then worrying about it goes away, and focus can be on the team and the players and the manager is just in the background, under less pressure, able to relax a bit more and maybe get the team playing better and more effectively. Plus the absolute last thin the club leads is more upheaval, It really really really needs stability in the key roles, all over. It may sound illogical but I can understand that 100%, see those points you‘ve made thus see the logic and reason behind your pov. So get this, if Bruce gets such equally reasoned polar opposites within a fan base (that obviously want the same thing - whats best for the club) then he can‘t be „the one that suits the club“. I understood the appointment because we needed someone specific to our needs at the time. A sure thing choice he was never going to be (imho) As 40+ games have been and gone, I‘ve seen enough to want him gone. Blandy posts that he was against the appointment and even though he doesnt appear to be impressed with our „limited style“ he is excepting the needs of the club to keep him. (roughly stated) I suppose we all just cant have the perfect „it‘s what I want“, we‘re just getting someone who is doing a job to a certain degree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Wolves are going to tear us a new one in my opinion with all their goals coming from our left. Bruce will really feel the pressure then. I think you missed out the first bit... "As a true Villa fan, I really hope it's not true that"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, briny_ear said: I think you missed out the first bit... "As a true Villa fan, I really hope it's not true that"... Goes without saying! Im really not looking forward to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 4 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I think it is based on a bit more than hope mate. In fact a lot more. He is a very experienced manger, has had great success at this level with 4 promotions on his CV the last of which was 16 months ago. As a player he captained one of the biggest clubs in the world so you'd like to think would know all about handling expectation. His record both as a leader on the pitch and a manager off it at this level, both recent and past, is excellent. For me you are therefore doing those that back him a big disservice by suggesting they are doing it based on a wing and a prayer. I think we'd all acknowledge that his time here hasn't been great but overall it hasn't been poor either. He has taken 71 points in 46 games which equates to a full season. That amount points would be around 5 short of the usual amount of points needed for a play off spot and 14 short of automatic. Under him then despite him inheriting a mess, despite him inheriting a club that had won 5 games in 18 months, not won an away game in 14 months, a club riddled with a losers mentality we aren't far away. In fact if we base it on the last 8 games where we are unbeaten and on a winning run of 4 games I'd say we are very close to achieving success under him. All of the above isn't to say he hasn't made mistakes because he has. He has taken too long to decide on a formation and has chopped and changed it way too much and he was also way too cautious for too long. Now that he appears to have corrected both those errors then at this point I see little to criticize him for. We all know his CV and that's what you're basing your feelings on but he's fell short so far and we all hope he gets it right. The thing is none of us know we can only hope he does. He has to improve our position. We are still short of where we need to be this season so so far he's underachieved. Let's hope we can start beating the teams that are going to be in contention as so fat this season in the big games we haven't done it. We've still had more poor performances than good I just hope we've turned the corner. I'd look up what hope means next time if I was you. If id put blind faith you may have had a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 hours ago, imavillan said: Steve Bruce has the nouse to get us out of this league....imo Up or down? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeAVFC Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Wolves are going to tear us a new one in my opinion with all their goals coming from our left. Bruce will really feel the pressure then. If we go gung ho then I agree, they'll rip us apart because they've got the legs on us and our defence isn't the quickest. However if we stay compact, have a good shape and play on the counter I can see us having a lot of joy. Also reading the Wolves forums this week it seems they're poor at defending from set pieces and crosses, and with the wide men we've got who have a good delivery we can cause them problems too. It'll be an intriguing game none the less and I for one can't wait Edited October 12, 2017 by MikeAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, dn1982 said: We all know his CV and that's what you're basing your feelings on but he's fell short so far and we all hope he gets it right. The thing is none of us know we can only hope he does. He has to improve our position. We are still short of where we need to be this season so so far he's underachieved. Let's hope we can start beating the teams that are going to be in contention as so fat this season in the big games we haven't done it. We've still had more poor performances than good I just hope we've turned the corner. I'd look up what hope means next time if I was you. If id put blind faith you may have had a point. did you actually read his post? Edited October 12, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, MikeAVFC said: If we go gung ho then I agree, they'll rip us apart because they've got the legs on us and our defence isn't the quickest. However if we stay compact, have a good shape and play on the counter I can see us having a lot of joy. Also reading the Wolves forums this week it seems they're poor at defending from set pieces and crosses, and with the wide men we've got who have a good delivery we can cause them problems too. It'll be an intriguing game none the less and I for one can't wait Sounds like a Steve Bruce team talk . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Sounds like a Steve Bruce team talk . ......sensible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Wolves are going to tear us a new one in my opinion with all their goals coming from our left. Bruce will really feel the pressure then. They will be wary of us too, SB may stay with his traditional beliefs, but I don't see them being cavalier either. close fought game is my prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: ......sensible though. I would rather " let's take the game to them " . So much for momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: I would rather " let's take the game to them " . So much for momentum. I'm not arguing against that, but we run the risk of leaving ourselves wide open. keep it tight, quieten the crowd, catch them on the counter.....job done. No one will want to lose this. ps ....do you dash over a minefield or strategically plot your course? Edited October 13, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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