peterms Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 17 hours ago, terrytini said: I am unhappy with much of Bruce's world but don't begrudge him a holiday. Neither do I, but I don't see how this fits with Xia saying deadline day is going to be very busy. Is the sighting of Bruce in Portugal actually confirmed, or is it mistaken identity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Just now, peterms said: Neither do I, but I don't see how this fits with Xia saying deadline day is going to be very busy. Is the sighting of Bruce in Portugal actually confirmed, or is it mistaken identity? At least we can put to rest this silly idea that Bruce (or Di Matteo) is personally handling the transfer dealings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Hard to believe it if Bruce is really on holiday in Portugal - we're 18th place and there is so much that needs sorting at VP plus transfers to manage. We're a very average team and this debacle will drift on and on with a few decent results that will provide false dawns until the penny drops that 10th place won't get us promotion Bruce out!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, peterms said: Neither do I, but I don't see how this fits with Xia saying deadline day is going to be very busy. Is the sighting of Bruce in Portugal actually confirmed, or is it mistaken identity? Confirmed, the BBC transfer centre have a pic of him and a couple fans in Portugal, as well as Koeman . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villabromsgrove Posted August 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2017 I've been reading about the tactical philosophies of managers like Jokanovic, Clement, Wagner etc and a descriptive phrase about the high press and energetic play to win the ball back caught my eye .... "this style of play enables players to play the aggressive energetic pressing style that most young modern managers are playing today". Contrast this with Bruce's sitting deep with often nine outfielders behind the ball, and keeping it tight with a long lofted out ball to an isolated striker or an unsupported run by Hutton as our only attacking options. While SB is wondering out loud whether we are "ready to play with strikers" or "whether we have trained enough with three centre backs to make it work", other teams are playing the kind of aggressive energetic high pressing football that we can only dream about. These "modern managers" suffocate the space in front of the opposition making it very hard to pass out of their defence and causing turnovers in dangerous areas. Bruce does the opposite, he leaves a vast open chasm in front of our midfield in which the opposition can play out without being challenged. Bruce will not play this "modern" way. If you look at the age of his latest signings it's clear he has no intention of playing this way, because you need younger energetic players with great engines to work the high press effectively. We also are clearly not fit enough to play this way, which is not surprising if we are only training three times a week on average. Bruce seems to be ignoring "tactics" and hoping that by putting a whole bunch of more experienced players on the pitch, they will be able to sort it out for themselves on match days. This will leave Villa increasingly isolated with an out of date creaking football philosophy, failing to get anywhere near the maximum out of a very decent but ageing squad. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tismyk Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Confirmed, the BBC transfer centre have a pic of him and a couple fans in Portugal, as well as Koeman . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 minute ago, tismyk said: These bonny lads have just been helping me rearrange these deckchairs! Looks canny! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 13 minutes ago, sne said: At least we can put to rest this silly idea that Bruce (or Di Matteo) is personally handling the transfer dealings. Well I'm sure others do the negotiating and all the procedural work, but aren't managers usually involved in meeting the players, explaining their plans, discussing how the player will fit in and so on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, peterms said: Neither do I, but I don't see how this fits with Xia saying deadline day is going to be very busy. Is the sighting of Bruce in Portugal actually confirmed, or is it mistaken identity? They do have phones in Portugal - I've been a big critic of Bruce in recent weeks but there is no reason why he or other players shouldn't be entitled to a few days off in this international break . Its a long old season ahead so I don't see any problem here - he will be easily contactable should anything develop transfer wise . Edited August 31, 2017 by Eastie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, peterms said: Well I'm sure others do the negotiating and all the procedural work, but aren't managers usually involved in meeting the players, explaining their plans, discussing how the player will fit in and so on? Most are probably involved in some capacity, yes. I'm just a bit bemused by the notion that our managers are solely responsible for scouting and negotiating players and transfers that you sometime come across in posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eastie said: I've been a big critic of Bruce in descent weeks Love it. I'm not sure it gives the right message to a prospective signing if the manager isn't there to discuss your big career move but will have a chat from the beach. I can't think of any recruitment scenario where that would happen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Eastie said: They do have phones in Portugal - I've been a big critic of Bruce in descent weeks but there is no reason why he or other players shouldn't be entitled to a few days off in this international break . Its a long old season ahead so I don't see any problem here - he will be easily contactable should anything develop transfer wise . This is more like the girlfriend you are tired of and wish she would just piss off, so everything she does annoys you, to be honest. lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, sne said: Most are probably involved in some capacity, yes. I'm just a bit bemused by the notion that our managers are solely responsible for scouting and negotiating players and transfers that you sometime come across in posts. I haven't noticed that. Most people seem to assume that scouting is done by scouts, negotiating is done by club officials, and the manager is responsible for identifying the type of player (and often the specific player) he is looking for, except where a DoF has taken over that part of the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, peterms said: Love it. I'm not sure it gives the right message to a prospective signing if the manager isn't there to discuss your big career move but will have a chat from the beach. I can't think of any recruitment scenario where that would happen. How do we know he's not flying back today ? I doubt he's there for more than 3 or 4 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, peterms said: Love it. I'm not sure it gives the right message to a prospective signing if the manager isn't there to discuss your big career move but will have a chat from the beach. I can't think of any recruitment scenario where that would happen. Most of our transfer business should hopefully be outs. He can send the fruit basket, he doesn't necessarily have to give it in person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Eastie said: How do we know he's not flying back today ? I doubt he's there for more than 3 or 4 days And that would make sense if any deal was previously known to be happening today and not at any other time. As we know, transfers don't happen like that, and things change very quickly. It would not be possible to know a week ago that the few days before today would not be seeing any action. In any line of business, you just wouldn't go away in what was potentially a crucial time. I just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 minute ago, peterms said: And that would make sense if any deal was previously known to be happening today and not at any other time. As we know, transfers don't happen like that, and things change very quickly. It would not be possible to know a week ago that the few days before today would not be seeing any action. In any line of business, you just wouldn't go away in what was potentially a crucial time. I just don't see it. He went to Portugal not the moon - there's no problem in this day and age talking to players - Sanchez has gone to play for chile but I doubt guardiola is in chile to speak with him - there are players on international duty all over the world but it won't stop deals going through . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 30 minutes ago, peterms said: Well I'm sure others do the negotiating and all the procedural work, but aren't managers usually involved in meeting the players, explaining their plans, discussing how the player will fit in and so on? a ) How players fit in doesn't seem to particularly bother Bruce , but ... b ) This presumably means no more ins. It's just outs that are being worked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 51 minutes ago, peterms said: but I don't see how this fits with Xia saying deadline day is going to be very busy. I do, it is because we are selling players not buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: I've been reading about the tactical philosophies of managers like Jokanovic, Clement, Wagner etc and a descriptive phrase about the high press and energetic play to win the ball back caught my eye .... "this style of play enables players to play the aggressive energetic pressing style that most young modern managers are playing today". Contrast this with Bruce's sitting deep with often nine outfielders behind the ball, and keeping it tight with a long lofted out ball to an isolated striker or an unsupported run by Hutton as our only attacking options. While SB is wondering out loud whether we are "ready to play with strikers" or "whether we have trained enough with three centre backs to make it work", other teams are playing the kind of aggressive energetic high pressing football that we can only dream about. These "modern managers" suffocate the space in front of the opposition making it very hard to pass out of their defence and causing turnovers in dangerous areas. Bruce does the opposite, he leaves a vast open chasm in front of our midfield in which the opposition can play out without being challenged. Bruce will not play this "modern" way. If you look at the age of his latest signings it's clear he has no intention of playing this way, because you need younger energetic players with great engines to work the high press effectively. We also are clearly not fit enough to play this way, which is not surprising if we are only training three times a week on average. Bruce seems to be ignoring "tactics" and hoping that by putting a whole bunch of more experienced players on the pitch, they will be able to sort it out for themselves on match days. This will leave Villa increasingly isolated with an out of date creaking football philosophy, failing to get anywhere near the maximum out of a very decent but ageing squad. I think that is a well considered post and one to take seriously. However, when you develop a win ratio matrix of all the managers that are meant to be contenders for his job......it is not conclusive reading. If that is a reasonable yardstick Steve Bruce has a similar win ratio to Jokanovic in their last jobs only on their total career does Bruce fall short......and when you put all the others in the mix, its not that convincing.....He still has 41.9% which also sits comfortable with past managers ( accepting we are in the championship, but everything is relative).........as a sample Dean Smith has 38.82 win ratio. All managers in any walk of life have their way of achieving the result they desire.....thats what in the main they have to answer to Results. finally, I think you make very significant comments, in what i consider a very apt post. ps I am not sure how modern it is, but it sure is a problem we face. pps most things in football have surfaced somewhere before. Edited August 31, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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