Steve Bruce

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think the problem for is , we don't see the work going in at BMH.....Good or bad.

We can only judge from what we see on match day......He sees a bigger picture.

No one can be 100% sure any manager will make it at any club.....never mind turning this around.

There were many factors for me, that made me think....SB was the right choice or Sam Allardyce......It needed a larger than life character, who hadn't been gift wrapped anything, someone who has tread the boards....not a "fly by night" a man of substance......I think he is all that.

don't forget, the whole club was lacking in confidence,not just the team, that is a huge responsibility, not for the faint hearted or inexperienced.

There is still a long way to go and who knows, setbacks can still slip in......but I think we are on our way.

Ps I was also impressed with his demeanor during our bad run over Xmas.....took everything in his stride, no panic, steady confidence.....Its important to see your manager in the midst of adversity....it bodes well.

TBH, his steady, no panic public reaction is exactly what convinced me he was NOT the right man for the job, for reasons I explained in detail some weeks back.  It should not be seen as "OK", "normal", or "acceptable" to get beat weak after weak.  

But, like we both said, that was his public face.  It may have been very different behind doors.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

He was outraged about the performances? I've never known a Villa manager to be so outspoken about how completely unacceptable some of them were. In particular Cardiff, Brentford and Wolves. 

[Upper north stander]

41 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He was outraged about the performances? I've never known a Villa manager to be so outspoken about how completely unacceptable some of them were. In particular Cardiff, Brentford and Wolves. 

Don't forget Norwich away! He ripped into them in the post match interview 

[rubberman]

So...If I'm up to speed, we need attractive, possession-based, winning football or its Bruce out, right?

 

[VillaChris]

We've been strong at home for most of this season bar the start and the dodgy spell that started from 2-0 up v PNE.

I really don't see the issue if we don't get a huge amount of possession at home, infact it probably helps as we can spring counter attacks towards Kodjia and Adomah if we sit deep. See the first goal on Saturday.

I would like to see better possession away from home. Still a lot of improvement needed on the road.

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

It should not be seen as "OK", "normal", or "acceptable" to get beat weak after weak.  

 

Which is why it's so reassuring that he never ever for one second maintained that our performance during that period was "OK" etc.

He was always very clear it was by no means good enough,

In fact he's continued to say we need to do better even when we started winning again.

Edited April 3, 2017 by briny_ear

[terrytini]

Reluctant as I am to enter one of our more circuitous and ephemeral debates......

I can't help myself.

So a couple of observations.

DDID observed earlier possession and attractiveness are by no means compatible - a few in this debate are conjoining the two. That makes no sense surely?

Someone else saying the proof that possession works better is the amount of top teams who are also high in possession stats - but again, as a line of logic surely people see it's meaningless ? It's impossible to say whether they are in the top positions because of possession or that they have a lot of possession because they are good sides.............equally whichever of the two it is there are still other quality teams who get low possession and low possession teams who finish high.

So it's all rather meaningless by any marker - as would be any use of the stats the other way.

Anoyher point, for those - plenty in this thread- that quote ' possession' without any other context......even more meaningless. Did anyone worried about our possession stats on Saturday watch the game ? HUGE amounts of Norwich possession was in their OWN half !! 

Whichever way you look at it that's meaningless.

So to be of ANY ( limited) value you would have to look at where the possession was.

AND if you go in front at Home (studies show) your possession figures often drop as teams then use counter attacking effectively against an away side losing.......could go on all day. 

At best it could only be argued that there is no clear evidence either way .

And as for the real world of where we are at- there is no way we are playing the same way we were in Jan / Feb. Some may point at  injuries, others ( me!) point at tactical decisions, but whichever it is we have moved - only slightly but very significantly - to a more positive approach. More positive in defence, midfield, and attack. More positive in linking midfield and attack. And it shows.

When we beat Derby I left the ground feeling flat as a pancake. The performance did nothing for me.

Cant say that about the last half hour at Wigan or the game on Saturday. We played good football (I.e keeper kept well, defenders- and others - defended well, forwards - and others - attacked well, we showed steel, we coped with injuries, we won. ). 

Nothing 'dangerous' about playing like that, and nothing unwatchable either.

 

 

[briny_ear]

Well said sir.^^^^^^^

You'd like to think that puts the possession baby to bed.

 

But sadly I doubt it.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

TBH, his steady, no panic public reaction is exactly what convinced me he was NOT the right man for the job, for reasons I explained in detail some weeks back.  It should not be seen as "OK", "normal", or "acceptable" to get beat weak after weak.  

But, like we both said, that was his public face.  It may have been very different behind doors.

I don't think it was......I don't think he was throwing his dummy out of the pram in public or private.

He knew the players needed time to work with him.

He struck me as a man who knew what had to be done.....was doing it.....but the results were not forth coming, due to the length of time he had been there and losing our 2 most influential players.....his new players had to find their feet too.

and now here we are.

I seen him disappointed, but never lost as to not know what to do....It was always, we have to work our way through this and thats what came across to me.

Edited April 4, 2017 by TRO

[AJ]

Screw possession. The best moments during a football game is when nobody is in possession, because the ball is in the other end's net.

[TrentVilla]

9 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He was outraged about the performances? I've never known a Villa manager to be so outspoken about how completely unacceptable some of them were. In particular Cardiff, Brentford and Wolves. 

He was even more cutting off camera.

[kurtsimonw]

10 hours ago, NottingVilla said:

I know we aren't a good team, just making the best of what we've got. Which is a bit concerning for promotion next season if not spending $$$.

Conceding for those that like to have a whinge, yeah. 

[sne]

So Bruce has repeatedly complained about our performances and have been unhappy or even outraged about the way we play.

But when fans has issues with the same thing they are whining, moaning and complaining for the sake of it?

 

[Godders]

Us Villa fans are a strange bunch, I'd hate to think what opinion visiting supporters to this forum have of us. 

We're top of the form table, we've one of the best home records in the country, and we're on our longest winning run in  God knows how long.

Villa fans: "But we're not winning in the right way!"

Our new owner has splashed the cash and made sure we've secured the services of some of the proven best players in the league. Players who, judging by the transfer threads, most here were excited to see come in.

Villa fans: "Our squad is rubbish. These players aren't good enough for us!"

The club takes pretty swift action to sack an underperforming manager, despite him only just being appointed and having a Champions League title under his belt. In his place the club employs someone who has been promoted 4 times out of this league, someone who knows exactly what it takes to get out of here.

Villa fans: "The manager's a dinosaur. Tactically inept. We really should have gone for (insert name of inexperienced manager here) who got (insert name of rubbish club here who won a couple of games about the time we were looking to replace RDM) playing progressive football."

I'm nervously excited about the game tonight because I want us to the flicker of the playoff dream alive. I can't remember the last time I was nervously excited for a Villa game! 

And don't forget, we have a flicker of hope for the playoffs still, despite effectively giving the rest of the league a half season head start after the effect of our 2 awful runs.

As TRO always goes to great pains to point out, we're a work in progress. We're only just starting out on this journey.

If we're going on these sorts of winning runs this early into it though, I can't wait to see where this journey ends. I'm firmly strapped in and readily looking forward to the roller coaster that's ahead of us.

[a m ole]

26 minutes ago, sne said:

So Bruce has repeatedly complained about our performances and have been unhappy or even outraged about the way we play.

But when fans has issues with the same thing they are whining, moaning and complaining for the sake of it?

 

it's not the same thing though, is it? People are complaining that not having possession will lead to losses while we've won 15 from a possible 18 points and sit top of the form table. Bruce was complaining when performances were leading to the polar opposite results (with more possession)

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Just now, a m ole said:

it's not the same thing though, is it? People are complaining that not having possession will lead to losses while we've won 15 from a possible 18 points and sit top of the form table. Bruce was complaining when performances were leading to the polar opposite results (with more possession)

 

18 from 21.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

At the minute Bruce is saying, generally, that the performances aren't the best and we can keep the ball better but we're resilient, defending fantastically well and we have the extra bit of quality shining through when we need it. There are "shoots of recovery". 

Pretty much where I'm at. 

[markavfc40]

11 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

TBH, his steady, no panic public reaction is exactly what convinced me he was NOT the right man for the job, for reasons I explained in detail some weeks back.  It should not be seen as "OK", "normal", or "acceptable" to get beat weak after weak.  

But, like we both said, that was his public face.  It may have been very different behind doors.

From the second he got here he has been consistent in continually demanding better. That is an obvious reaction when we have lost but he has not once lorded it off the back off a good result in fact every time I have heard him speak it is we can do this, this and this better.

I got to be honest that is what has helped convince me he is the right man for the job. That he hasn’t dressed up a poor performance as anything other than that. He has said it as it is and I think he has described pretty much every game the way I, and I’d imagine the vast majority of us, have seen it.

What I would say in regard to you saying he has shown no panic I’d imagine that is what got us out of that dire run. The fact he showed composure, that he was nothing but convinced in his ability and that of his players to eventually turn things around. I guess if we were still on that poor run you could say he got it wrong. The fact we have now won six of the last seven would suggest the way he handled things was very much right.

Edited April 4, 2017 by markavfc40

[DCJonah]

Being angry about our lack of possession in some games, while we win, is daft. Criticising Bruce for lack of possession, while we win games is daft. 

But the more successful teams, over the course of a season average more possession. They control the game more, hence the consistent results. There are other examples of the opposite but usually it's not the case. 

I fully expect us to be near the top next season and have stronger possession stats. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by DCJonah

[AJ]

57 minutes ago, Godders said:

Us Villa fans are a strange bunch, I'd hate to think what opinion visiting supporters to this forum have of us. 

We're top of the form table, we've one of the best home records in the country, and we're on our longest winning run in  God knows how long.

Villa fans: "But we're not winning in the right way!"

Our new owner has splashed the cash and made sure we've secured the services of some of the proven best players in the league. Players who, judging by the transfer threads, most here were excited to see come in.

Villa fans: "Our squad is rubbish. These players aren't good enough for us!"

The club takes pretty swift action to sack an underperforming manager, despite him only just being appointed and having a Champions League title under his belt. In his place the club employs someone who has been promoted 4 times out of this league, someone who knows exactly what it takes to get out of here.

Villa fans: "The manager's a dinosaur. Tactically inept. We really should have gone for (insert name of inexperienced manager here) who got (insert name of rubbish club here who won a couple of games about the time we were looking to replace RDM) playing progressive football."

I'm nervously excited about the game tonight because I want us to the flicker of the playoff dream alive. I can't remember the last time I was nervously excited for a Villa game! 

And don't forget, we have a flicker of hope for the playoffs still, despite effectively giving the rest of the league a half season head start after the effect of our 2 awful runs.

As TRO always goes to great pains to point out, we're a work in progress. We're only just starting out on this journey.

If we're going on these sorts of winning runs this early into it though, I can't wait to see where this journey ends. I'm firmly strapped in and readily looking forward to the roller coaster that's ahead of us.

To be fair, its just individuals saying the same thing over and over again, not necessarily a selection of fans.

Its that ol' pretense, say something ridiculous enough and you will get all the attention.