Steve Bruce

[Jas10]

21 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I don't hate Bruce as a person or as a manager, but he needs to be replaced as soon as we can find a replacement.  I don't know whether he's a dinosaur, or too defensive, or too cautious, or just making mistakes, or just getting screwed by under-performing players, or all of the above.

We have changed owners, board, managers, coaches, fitness trainers, players, and lucky underwear.  I don't even blame Bruce for all our problems.  Neither to I blame a curse.

I blame a 7-8 year mentality that is content with small victories.  (we had more shots, we didn't get relegated, we kept Benteke, etc. etc)  In our defense we were forced to settle for small victories when our owner shut his wallet.  It was the mental defense of many fans, but it was also the defense of the owner, the board, the manager, the players.  We took pride in small victories and learned to settle for them.  A contented haze just as certainly as an addict comfortably hazed out while the house is on fire (sorry for the melodrama).  Look at the effort from half our roster last year and the "efforts" they put in, and defended!!  Look at Gabby's waist line!

Changing it has to come from Tony and from the board.  (it started at the top, it has to be changed from the top.)

They cannot accept small victories as good enough.  That's why they have to let Bruce go.  He must be the first sacrifice made (there will almost certainly be others). Players, trainers, coaches, must see in the actions of the club that we demand results.  Full stop.   "Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try."  "Do" is rewarded.  "Do not" is penalized.  "Try" is the same as "do not."

If the board will not have that attitude in retaining a manager, the players will not have that attitude for pressuring the opponent, showing for a pass, or finishing a goal attempt.

Sorry Steve, for the good of Villa, you have to go.
 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, VillaCas said:

As you well know TRO I was against Bruce from the off and have consistently said he was the wrong appointment throughout although I must admit that I didn't imagine he would be as bad as he has been.

Of course  I've no way of knowing for sure if Wagner would be more successful but his record with scant resources at Huddersfield suggest he would be doing far far better than Bruce. 

VC to be fair, you was opposed to the appointment from the start, but my point was you went quiet during his first 12 odd games.....he got 8 wins, perfectly feasible that you did.....it would have not attracted much empathy.

I never expected this under his stewardship and I suspect even his detractors didn't either, as you generously say.

when any manager presides over a dramatic free fall as this, its very difficult to defend.

I am no exception, I'm afraid.

[markavfc40]

I don't really know what to say after tonight. Without looking at the stats from just being at the game I'd imagine we dominated possession, had perhaps 3 or 4 times the amount of shots Barnsley had and likewise had way more corners. As with a lot of games earlier in the season individual or collective defensive errors are doing us over though. The one area where I was confident Bruce would dramatically improve us was defensively but it is the one area that over recent weeks has gone drastically backwards.

I could perhaps paint a hard luck story about tonight but it isn't just about that. It is 6 or 7 weeks of dire results and in the main poor performances. Before that the results under him were good but performances unconvincing. The hope was that by improving the area we were really lacking, centre mid, that performances would improve. They haven't they have gone backwards.

The biggest problem I now have with Bruce is that much like RDM he made major changes during the transfer window but seems to have no idea how to piece it all together. No set formation in mind, no favourite 11 to fill it. We consistently see 3 or 4 changes in personnel a game and change formation pretty much every other game.

I am disappointed in him. I really thought he could at the very least steady the ship up until January and then we could push on but the opposite has happened. 

I am loathe to pulling the trigger at this stage but as with all managers you go on a run like we have the last 6 weeks and you are in trouble and under pressure. We need a couple of wins in the next 5 games otherwise I think he may be done. For now though I think just as the first couple of months under him didn't prove he was the right choice the last 6 weeks haven't yet proved him to be the wrong one. The next 3 or 4 weeks will show whether he can turn this around.

Edited February 14, 2017 by markavfc40

[Fairy In Boots]

58 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Promotion? Are you serious? We just lost to Barnsley at home. We barely manage to score a goal, let alone win a game.

He needs to go. Resistance is futile.

I thought it was obvious that I meant promotion next year. 

[Jas10]

Seriously, enough is enough. We can't take any more of this turgid, repetitive crap.

He should not be allowed any more time to ruin us even more. It is all accelerating downhill and disaster is incoming if this continues.

Nothing against the guy personally (no need for hate or abuse) but clearly this is not the right fit and this "relationship" needs to end before further damage is inflicted. You can say, "wrong man at the wrong time" or whatever if you wish, but this can't be allowed to go on any longer.

He doesn't know what to do and keeps coming out with the same, tired old crap in his post match interviews.

He is proving incapable of motivating and getting a performance out of these players and doing a good job for this club. 

All we can do is remove him and try again, no matter how frustrating or negative as that may sound to some. We cannot allow ourselves to be in danger of relegation, it's an absolute joke and a major embarrassment. How far we have fallen...it is utterly gut wrenching and sickening....

We need a new management team at the helm, not just a standaone manager who spends an age just grabbing the odd random coach from anywhere...

[Woodytom]

21 minutes ago, villianusa said:

https://tinyurl.com/gtaa28c A small piece of what he said.

More BS.

The reason why the wage bill is so high is because it continues to be atrociously managed.

[tonyh29]

Another week and still no phone call to Phelan ?

i don't see us changing manager again this season but something needs to change , at the moment Bruce is a broken man changing formations and players and desperately hoping he stumbles across a winning formula 

[Woodytom]

2 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

not just a standaone manager who spends an age just grabbing the odd random coach from anywhere...

That tickled me.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said:

Losing 0-1 at home to Ipswich

Losing 1-3 at home to Barnsley

One point from a possible 21 in 2017 tells me SB is totally the WRONG manager

 

 

Mike, its hard to defend.

but like I said to VC you wasn't so certain a few weeks ago when he was basking in the sun of 8 wins....I guess it's easier to heard at present.

I guess Ranieri is having a similar thing to deal with.

However,I am not as certain as you that by randomly changing managers, because that's what we have appeared to do, will change things......unless we believe in the law of averages ,we are eventually bound to land on a successful one.

not sure I will be around to see it.

[terrytini]

The fact that we don't know how well someone else would do should never be a reason to keep a failing Manager.

How many Managers we have had should never be a reason to keep a failing Manager. 

There are NO good reasons for keeping a failing Manager.

The only important question is therefore what constitutes failure and it must be a combination of results, performances, and signs of improvement.

In turn, these factors must be considered across a reasonable time period.

Thats all there is to it.

Is he getting results, performances, or signs of improvement ?

No.

So the ONLY question that matters is had he had enough time to be judged a success or a failure. 

In my view half a season is a reasonable period, so far he's had 21 games.

Win  the next two and his record will be 32 points from 23 games and we will be near safety which I would suggest saves him for another month at least.

Lose them and it's 26 points from 23 games, relegation looming,and he's gone.

 

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, thunderball said:

No sane person will take us now. Xia wont sack him either, not unless we are right above the relegation zone. Scarily, that could be three games.

Many managers would give their left testicle to manage us for the pay cheque alone. Swansea were heading for relegation yet managed to lure Clement away from Bayern Munich

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said:

Many managers would give their left testicle to manage us for the pay cheque alone. Swansea were heading for relegation yet managed to lure Clement away from Bayern Munich

Maybe that's why it seems we've ended up a load of bollocks

Edited February 14, 2017 by terrytini

[MikeMcKenna]

Just now, TRO said:

Mike, its hard to defend.

but like I said to VC you wasn't so certain a few weeks ago when he was basking in the sun of 8 wins....I guess it's easier to heard at present.

I guess Ranieri is having a similar thing to deal with.

However,I am not as certain as you that by randomly changing managers, because that's what we have appeared to do, will change things......unless we believe in the law of averages ,we are eventually bound to land on a successful one.

not sure I will be around to see it.

TRO I will not deny that I thought I was wrong when we went on the winning streak but personally I never felt he was "basking in the sun". Some of the football even during that time was dire and I am hard pushed to remember when If ever Ithought Bruce was the manager to  turn us round. I am far from certain that the next manager will do a job but see absolutely no point in giving SB more time. 

[DaveAV1]

Steve Bruce said when he was appointed, something along the lines, "I've been waiting for this chance for 20 years". That should have told us all we need to know. In 20 years the only big club that has appointed him is us, and even that was once we had been relegated to the Championship.

Whoever we appoint next both the club and the manager have to have a structured plan. Not just enthusiasm, hope and a pile of money. I'm not knocking the Doc at all, he's a breath of fresh air, but we need to get things right and quickly. The new man should be told that there will be some money for a goalkeeper and a centre half, but that's it, work with what you've got. If there are other aspects of the squad he wants to change than he has to look to the youth team or generate cash from sales. You know like a proper manager does.

Remember the Glacticos at Real Madrid a few years back. They bought every superstar they could get their hands on. On paper an incredible squad, but on the pitch they weren't a team and achieved, what was for them, very little. Comparisons, although at a completely different level, can be seen with with our squad right now.

[Jas10]

Needs to go NOW, it has gone beyond the point of being patient and waiting to see if results and performances would improve. There has been no sign or inkling of that at all, which would suggest disaster is looming unless he (and his pointless, completely ineffective coaching team) is removed.

Again, if there had been any signs of improvement at all, any source of encouragement, any proof that he knows what he is doing and has any idea of what his preferred 11, preferred formation/system & preferred style of play (at least with this team) is then there would be an argument for sticking with him.

Thats just not the case and it is just getting worse, embarrassment after embarrassment, so much so that the overriding feeling and atmosphere right now is that of continually increasing despair and frustration...

[Woodytom]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Mike, its hard to defend.

but like I said to VC you wasn't so certain a few weeks ago when he was basking in the sun of 8 wins....I guess it's easier to heard at present.

Some of us were asking serious questions quite a while back.

Remember my concerns regarding the Norwich game, which I stand by as the worst performance I've seen from a villa team. 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't really know what to say after tonight. Without looking at the stats from just being at the game I'd imagine we dominated possession, had perhaps 3 or 4 times the amount of shots Barnsley had and likewise had way more corners. As with a lot of games earlier in the season individual or collective defensive errors are doing us over though. The one area where I was confident Bruce would dramatically improve us was defensively but it is the one area that over recent weeks has gone drastically backwards.

I could perhaps paint a hard luck story about tonight but it isn't just about that. It is 6 or 7 weeks of dire results and in the main poor performances. Before that the results under him were good but performances unconvincing. The hope was that by improving the area we were really lacking, centre mid, that performances would improve. They haven't they have gone backwards.

The biggest problem I now have with Bruce is that much like RDM he made major changes during the transfer window but seems to have no idea how to piece it all together. No set formation in mind, no favourite 11 to fill it. We consistently see 3 or 4 changes in personnel a game and change formation pretty much every other game.

I am disappointed in him. I really thought he could at the very least steady the ship up until January and then we could push on but the opposite has happened. 

I am loathe to pulling the trigger at this stage but as with all managers you go on a run like we have the last 6 weeks and you are in trouble and under pressure. We need a couple of wins in the next 5 games otherwise I think he may be done. For now though I think just as the first couple of months under him didn't prove he was the right choice the last 6 weeks haven't yet proved him to be the wrong one. The next 3 or 4 weeks will show whether he can turn this around.

I agree with most of that Mark.

I have heard fans criticise managers for not changing players and some for changing too much....I'm not sure who is right and who is wrong.

FWIW.....He is searching for something to work and at the moment nothing much is.

I think the paradox we all face is the best players, do not always make the best team.

We have spent much, but the blend is not there.

We have made our bed and I guess we have to lie on it.....In my humble opinion, we have too many piano players and not enough piano carriers.

I don't think Jedinak being out is a coincidence.

No one appears to want to do the ugly stuff and the opposition pick up on that like a shark smells blood.

nuff said.

[PaulC]

We haven't really played well under Bruce though have we. He had a lot of luck early on but that's gone and whats left. I'm not for changing managers because of a few bad results but the process isn't right either. The job is too big for at his stage of life. He looked under enormous stress at Hull. Never wanted him myself. would rather have stuck with RDM than have Bruce. blues fans don't even want him back.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Some of us were asking serious questions quite a while back.

Remember my concerns regarding the Norwich game, which I stand by as the worst performance I've seen from a villa team. 

Yes, I do......and I accept your position.

but that is not my point Woody, I'm merely saying that same confidence to get rid, was not there a couple of months back.

There were fans who very calmly said they never wanted him and never fancied him....during his 8 wins in the sun those detractors took a rain check......now the thunder clouds are here, all the umbrella's have come out.

I cannot defend this low level stuff by the way, so If he gets the proverbial hook, I will understand

where I differ from some fans, I don't see this being fixed by another manager anytime soon.

[Demitri_C]

53 minutes ago, villianusa said:

https://tinyurl.com/gtaa28c A small piece of what he said.

He does have a point. They are paid huge wages and performing like pathetic losers. They have not warranted the huge wages.