lapal_fan Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Tell this to RDM please. It's his choice to play about 6/7 different formations/systems in 10 games. It's hardly going to get us to gel is it? And by the same token he's been slammed for not changing things. We played badly 1st half against Newcastle, he changed it, we got something out of it. We played badly against Brentford, we got a point out of it. We've not changed Gardner/Westwood, we got a point out of it. We've subbed one of them (with our limited options), we got a point out of it. We've played 5 at the back We've played 4 a the back We've played 424 We've done loads of stuff.. Point is, no two games are the same, we've not really been able to have a settled preferred* starting 11 since the summer. and we're 12 points off the top, or 2 or 3 off the bottom, whatever it is. It means nothing. It's still far too early to look at the table. People are fixating over it and there's no point. This happens all the time in the Championship, the table will be VERY different come Xmas, we might put a few of these "wins" together. Point is, there's a growing number of people on here who want a change now, they want RDM out now because we're the worst thing in the universe. I dunno what the answer is, but I'm not frothing at the gash to get the latest idiot to manage our club (because who the **** would? right?) out on his arse when the potential candidates include Steve **** Bruce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: And by the same token he's been slammed for not changing things. We played badly 1st half against Newcastle, he changed it, we got something out of it. We played badly against Brentford, we got a point out of it. We've not changed Gardner/Westwood, we got a point out of it. We've subbed one of them (with our limited options), we got a point out of it. We've played 5 at the back We've played 4 a the back We've played 424 We've done loads of stuff.. Point is, no two games are the same, we've not really been able to have a settled preferred* starting 11 since the summer. and we're 12 points off the top, or 2 or 3 off the bottom, whatever it is. It means nothing. It's still far too early to look at the table. People are fixating over it and there's no point. This happens all the time in the Championship, the table will be VERY different come Xmas, we might put a few of these "wins" together. Point is, there's a growing number of people on here who want a change now, they want RDM out now because we're the worst thing in the universe. I dunno what the answer is, but I'm not frothing at the gash to get the latest idiot to manage our club (because who the **** would? right?) out on his arse when the potential candidates include Steve **** Bruce. Point is 1 win in 10 - sure that Could all change. we could win the next 10 on the bounce (so could Rotherham !) - we don't know what going to happen in the next 10 games. However the previous 10 is a darn good pointer IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 34 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: 37 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: We need continuity, we need the team to gel and we need to stick together. Tell this to RDM please. It's his choice to play about 6/7 different formations/systems in 10 games. It's hardly going to get us to gel is it? He was given a fortune, at this level, to spend, signed nine players, was pretty much given carte blanche over who he retained from what he inherited, and yet the squad he has built he has no clue how he wants to play them. From game to game he changes formation, in fact he frequently changes formation at half time, and seems to simply be hoping he will stumble on one that works. Whilst he was putting the squad together you'd like to think he was buying/retaining players to suit a system he wanted to play. It seems he has though put a squad together and is now desperately scrambling around hoping to get lucky and find a system that works. It is madness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: And by the same token he's been slammed for not changing things. We played badly 1st half against Newcastle, he changed it, we got something out of it. We played badly against Brentford, we got a point out of it. We've not changed Gardner/Westwood, we got a point out of it. We've subbed one of them (with our limited options), we got a point out of it. We've played 5 at the back We've played 4 a the back We've played 424 You understand the opinion that generally he changes thing when he shouldn't and doesn't when he should, right? He switched things up against Forest which worked (until we bottled it again), then after a leggy performance that midweek he switched to 5 at the back. He corrected his own mistake against Newcastle, then changed a 'winning' formula for the following match. When Bristol started taking charge of the game he did nothing. When we looked leggy yesterday and losing the midfield battle, we stuck with Grealish, Kodjia and Ayew in there. That's getting the basics wrong and unless he can suddenly learn the basics overnight, he's not good enough and it doesn't matter how long he has been here or how long we give him. Edited September 28, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: You understand the opinion that generally he changes thing when he shouldn't and doesn't when he should, right? He switched things up against Forest which worked (until we bottled it again), then after a leggy performance that midweek he switched to 5 at the back. He corrected his own mistake against Newcastle, then changed a 'winning' formula for the following match. When Bristol started taking charge of the game he did nothing. When we looked leggy yesterday and losing the midfield battle, we stuck with Grealish, Kodjia and Ayew in there. That's getting the basics wrong and unless he can suddenly learn the basics overnight, he's not good enough. Fair point. I put far more trust in your judgement as you watch the games than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 18 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You understand the opinion that generally he changes thing when he shouldn't and doesn't when he should, right? He switched things up against Forest which worked (until we bottled it again), then after a leggy performance that midweek he switched to 5 at the back. He corrected his own mistake against Newcastle, then changed a 'winning' formula for the following match. When Bristol started taking charge of the game he did nothing. When we looked leggy yesterday and losing the midfield battle, we stuck with Grealish, Kodjia and Ayew in there. That's getting the basics wrong and unless he can suddenly learn the basics overnight, he's not good enough and it doesn't matter how long he has been here or how long we give him. Nah that's not right. It looks like he does that because we aren't winning. Had he made the same changes and we'd not conceded a few daft late goals he'd be hailed as a genius for his flexibility. Peoples view of tactical changes is almost entirely concluded (although not always formed, I agree ) in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Its one thing arguing that results aren't good - they aren't. And fine to argue more could be expected etc. Even arguing about altering philosophy from attack to defensive mindset. Its different completely this thing fans have of concluding their Manager is an idiot - according to fans on here every single Manager we had is tactically clueless, makes the wrong changes at the wrong time, and is poor with subs. So is every England Manager. So is Jose. So is Wenger. Read any fan site its all the same. All those things are either praised when winning or slated when not winning - even when its the same managers in each case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Taking one simple example, tiredness. Do fans really think that, sat there are 3 coaches, with all the latest fitness information and tech, who don't notice when a player is leggy, yet we all see it in the stand ? They may have 1001 reasons for not acting on it in the way some watching think they do. Its not a sign of incompetence. And look at any match thread, from any Club, anytime. If they are winning, keep attacking, and go on to lose it will be "should have shored it up". If they are winning and a defensive midfielder brought on, and go on to lose its "should've kept attacking ". If he had attacked after Forest and we'd lost there would've been plenty saying "why didn't he go more solid".ad infinitum. If we'd beaten Ipswich playing 3 at the back there would be plenty staying "stick with it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 32 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: He was given a fortune, at this level, to spend, signed nine players, was pretty much given carte blanche over who he retained from what he inherited, and yet the squad he has built he has no clue how he wants to play them. From game to game he changes formation, in fact he frequently changes formation at half time, and seems to simply be hoping he will stumble on one that works. Whilst he was putting the squad together you'd like to think he was buying/retaining players to suit a system he wanted to play. It seems he has though put a squad together and is now desperately scrambling around hoping to get lucky and find a system that works. It is madness. I agree with that. How can anyone not disagree, it is simply true. The issue is whether his changing is a sign of competence or incompetence,. He (I think we can assume ? ) wouldn't be changing things if we were winning (or if he had his preferred 11 available more than twice in a row ?). We are assuming the changes are causing the problems, but how do we know ? Perhaps the changing will solve them ? It would be odd, I think, if we were failing to win and he didn't change things around ? I've seen many Managers (Bobby Robson was rightly quoted on here the other day) do the same and eventually stumble on the one that works. Football often is accidental alchemy. What works one day, or with one man, doesn't elsewhere. I'm just saying....the results aren't coming, the performances are not improving, fair enough. And some have run out of patience, fair enough. But I dont think he's a fool, or that what he is doing is madness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I agree with all of that. It's been fine, fine margins this season between winning (sadly not) and drawing (sadly). In 85 minute football , RDM is doing pretty well. I still hope it'll start to work out for a few minutes longer - starting this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, rubberman said: I agree with all of that. It's been fine, fine margins this season between winning (sadly not) and drawing (sadly). In 85 minute football , RDM is doing pretty well. I still hope it'll start to work out for a few minutes longer - starting this weekend. That's key for me. I have to admit he has done himself (or the Team have done him) no favours with 75 minutes against Brentford, and 65 against Newcastle (I didn't see last night, or Bristol , they are 2 I've missed)....they have been poor when they should have been better, and taken away from the "only a matter of time " feeling but on balance I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, terrytini said: That's key for me. I have to admit he has done himself (or the Team have done him) no favours with 75 minutes against Brentford, and 65 against Newcastle (I didn't see last night, or Bristol , they are 2 I've missed)....they have been poor when they should have been better, and taken away from the "only a matter of time " feeling but on balance I agree. We were poor last night too, got bossed off the park first half and most of the second. By Barnsley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, rubberman said: I agree with all of that. It's been fine, fine margins this season between winning (sadly not) and drawing (sadly). In 85 minute football , RDM is doing pretty well. I still hope it'll start to work out for a few minutes longer - starting this weekend. That is perhaps true. It is inevitable though that if you get into the last 10 minutes only a goal up then the opposing team will throw the kitchen sink at you as it is either shit or bust. They have nothing to lose. To counter that you either ensure you are at least a couple of goals to the good by that time or you ensure you have the players on the pitch to cope with that inevitable barrage and you have them organised to be able to with stand it. Against Forest we got down to the dying minutes one goal up with one natural centre midfielder on the pitch and five forwards. Last night we got down to the last 5 minutes sitting deep with two natural centre midfielders on the pitch and four forwards. The outlet ball was to Gestede who Di Matteo bought on but we had no one around him to support him so despite having so many forwards on the pitch we had no outlet and were pinned in. Against Brentford we tried to sit deep and hold what we have for 45 minutes until the inevitable happened. We aren't learning. Game after game we make the same mistakes. The managers answer is to start the games with different formations, and has gone from a positive mentality and playing on the front foot at the start of the season to a negative one over the last 4 games, when that really wasn't the issue that needed addressing. Him constantly getting it wrong does lead me to believe that he doesn't know how to put things right unfortunately. Edited September 28, 2016 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) His pre-Villa experience isn’t a negative IMO, it is one of the reasons I think we may be writing him off too quickly. I have been as disappointed as anyone by our performances, but that doesn’t mean he cannot turn this around, although I understand why patience is running out. If you look back, we played some good stuff against Rotherham, Huddersfield, Forest etc. when confidence was higher. But these late losses goals are taking their toll on the fans, the players and the manager and we have been regressing towards a more cautious defensive approach that has not worked. RDM is criticized for changing systems all the time, but I think his head is a bit scrambled as he tries to find a system or method for this new team to stop the rot. But that is a confidence issue as much as anything; for RDM and the team. RDM is more than capable of winning games – his record proves it – and if we're honest his team should have won last night if they had took their chances or if Gollini had caught that ball. The margins are so small and we are so close. I want to see RDM after a couple of breakthrough wins, if he can get them soon. I think those would lift the confidence and belief of the players and manager and then we might see a more assertive and better RDM, but he needs those couple of wins now! I know most will disagree, but his win percentages at MK Dons (52%), WBA (48%), Chelsea (57%) suggests to me he has a lot more to offer – certainly more than what we have seen. Edited September 28, 2016 by Gary Thomas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: That is perhaps true. It is inevitable though that if you get into the last 10 minutes only a goal up then the opposing team will throw the kitchen sink at you as it is either shit or bust. They have nothing to lose. To counter that you either ensure you are at least a couple of goals to the good by that time or you ensure you have the players on the pitch to cope with that inevitable barrage and you have them organised to be able to with stand it. Against Forest we got down to the dying minutes one goal up with one natural centre midfielder on the pitch and five forwards. Last night we got down to the last 5 minutes sitting deep with two natural centre midfielders on the pitch and four forwards. The outlet ball was to Gestede who Di Matteo bought on but we had no one around him to support him so despite having so many forwards on the pitch we had no outlet and were pinned in. Against Brentford we tried to sit deep and have what we hold for 45 minutes until the inevitable happened. We aren't learning. Game after game we make the same mistakes. The managers answer is to start the games with different formations, and has gone from a positive mentality and playing on the front foot at the start of the season to a negative one over the last 4 games, when that really wasn't the issue that needed addressing. Him constantly getting it wrong does lead me to believe that he doesn't know how to put things right unfortunately. But Mark we DID acheive that against Ipswich, and Newcastle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said: His pre Villa experience isn’t a negative imo, it is one of the reasons we may be writing him off too quickly. I have been as disappointed as anyone by our performances, but that doesn’t mean he cannot turn this around, although I understand why patience is running out. But I think we played some good stuff against Rotherham, Huddersfield, Forest etc. when confidence was higher. But these late losses are taking their toll on the fans, the players and the manager and we have been regressing towards a more cautious defensive approach that has not worked. RDM is criticized for changing systems all the time, but I think his head is a bit scrambled as he tries to find a system or method for this new team to stop the rot. But that is a confidence issue as much as anything; for RDM and the team. We should not kid ourselves, RDM is more than capable of wining games – he record proves it without – and if we're honest his team should have won last night if they had took their chances or if Gollini had caught that ball. The margins are so small and we are so close. I want to see RDM after a couple of breakthrough wins, if he can get them soon. I think those would lift the confidence and belief of the players and manager and then we might see a more assertive and better RDM, but he needs those couple of wins now! I know most will disagree, but his win percentages at MK Dons (52%), WBA (48%), Chelsea (57%) suggests to me he has a lot more to offer – certainly more than what we have seen. They aren't losses !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, terrytini said: But Mark we DID acheive that against Ipswich, and Newcastle ? We were not a goal up in the dying minutes in those games and certainly Newcastle were not throwing anything at us at that stage. Edited September 28, 2016 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Just now, markavfc40 said: We were not a goal up in the dying minutes in those games and certainly Newcastle were not throwing anything at us at that stage. But we did resist Ipswich throwing the sink at us, and its not really fair to say Newcastle weren't throwing anything at us - they weren't because we were on top !! The guy can't win !!! (In more ways than one ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, terrytini said: They aren't losses !!! Your right, but they feel like losses when sitting on a coach coming back from Barnsley Edit - thinking about, they are losses in terms of points lost. Edited September 28, 2016 by Gary Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I would imagine a 5-0 win feels like a loss on a coach coming back from Barnsley ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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