Villa Park redevelopment

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 hours ago, andycv said:

I have no basis whatsoever for saying this but.....  I am sure that the club are looking at how to rebuild while not taking out capacity.  I just think that they know we have to address these issues in the medium term.

Nah this would make too much sense mate.... 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, ender4 said:

The more i think about it, the more i'm convinced that the new North stand was scrapped because Atorios (or however you spell it) are looking at a much much bigger scheme and all their available options.

It will either be a new ground (i know Heck has said we aren't moving but everything that comes out of his mouth is horse manure) or a full redevelopment of Villa Park (with us playing elsewhere for 2-3 seasons). 

I think it'll be announced late 2025 and work will commence just after the Euros in 2028.

I know nothing about these things.

However, as dumb as this may sound to people who know engineering, are there ways to actually build " around " the stadium?

Like build full new structures and tiers around the whole stadium which eventually connect to create new seats at the top, and expand the innards to create more room for upgrading internally?

I know what I mean in my mind but most likely describing it incorrectly.

[sne]

8 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I know nothing about these things.

However, as dumb as this may sound to people who know engineering, are there ways to actually build " around " the stadium?

Like build full new structures and tiers around the whole stadium which eventually connect to create new seats at the top, and expand the innards to create more room for upgrading internally?

I know what I mean in my mind but most likely describing it incorrectly.

Yeah, piece of cake.

[thabucks]

9 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I know nothing about these things.

However, as dumb as this may sound to people who know engineering, are there ways to actually build " around " the stadium?

Like build full new structures and tiers around the whole stadium which eventually connect to create new seats at the top, and expand the innards to create more room for upgrading internally?

I know what I mean in my mind but most likely describing it incorrectly.

Liverpool did this with their main stand and new Anfield Road end but they retained the old stands - issue is this cannot be done with the north stand. You could look at add another tier to the trinity road stand which holds 13’000 odd - for comparison plops main stand holds around 20’000 

Edited Tuesday at 16:54 by thabucks

[limpid]

1 minute ago, thabucks said:

You could look at add another to the trinity road stand which olds 13’000 odd - for comparison plops main stand holds around 20’000 

Not without consent to further develop in the park and further encroachment on the properties in Nelson Road.

[Made In Aston]

A large scale stadium redevelopment and expansion of the multiclub ownership will surely happen at some point. Atairos has been brought in to help fund infrastructure projects, so it's unlikely that they will limited to small projects, like the warehouse and bodymoor developments, that don’t add significant value on their investment. 

[thabucks]

10 minutes ago, limpid said:

Not without consent to further develop in the park and further encroachment on the properties in Nelson Road.

Very true but it would be easier to do than a new Witton lane stand … it’s all hypothetical anyhow 

[Stephen_Evans]

3 hours ago, thabucks said:

Liverpool did this with their main stand and new Anfield Road end but they retained the old stands - issue is this cannot be done with the north stand. 

This is repeated so often it has become a “fact” (no offence meant to you @thabucks).  But that is exactly what the late 90s / early 00s plan was.  The roof would have been taken off, the rest of the structure secured, and then a new built structure around it.  Ellis called it “an envelope design”.  The plans even showed an internal “void” between the outer wall of the old stand and the new part. 

Edited Tuesday at 20:41 by Stephen_Evans

[sidcow]

6 hours ago, ender4 said:

It will either be a new ground (i know Heck has said we aren't moving but everything that comes out of his mouth is horse manure) or a full redevelopment of Villa Park (with us playing elsewhere for 2-3 seasons). 

In all fairness he used a strange set of words to say that. Something like "not in my lifetime" 

He's no idea what happens 20 years from now when I assume he still hopes to be alive so I don't see how he can say that. 

Did he mean his lifetime at Villa?  In which case that could mean not in the next 2 years. 

What he DIDN'T say is it's just not going to happen. 

 

[sidcow]

I still say if we move is HAS to be The NEC. There is nowhere else that has good enough transport links. 

No site in the City Centre is available and big enough. 

[sidcow]

The only other solution is to be like the Man United proposals and have wholesale redevelopment of Aston with a stadium being built around say Village Rd / Yew Tree Rd / Holte Rd surrounded by new homes then former Villa Park being built on.

That's a definite possibility as those old poor quality Victorian homes need to be knocked down at some point. 

[OutByEaster?]

There's no intention by the club to move the stadium or replace a stand in the short or medium term. 

I have a feeling we won't see that happen under this ownership group.

 

[Sam-AVFC]

It does seem weird that FFP doesn't have allowances for temporary drops in revenue whilst a stadium is being redeveloped.

Surely if a club is losing £10m a year redeveloping a stand it wouldn't be controversial for owners to be able to top that up until work finishes.

[Alakagom]

1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

It does seem weird that FFP doesn't have allowances for temporary drops in revenue whilst a stadium is being redeveloped.

Surely if a club is losing £10m a year redeveloping a stand it wouldn't be controversial for owners to be able to top that up until work finishes.

FFP does that have allowance, it offsets how much you lose.  Which is precisely why they delayed redevelopment I'm pretty sure, they plainly see that they can squeeze out say 10-20mn a year more out of the stand immediately within next 2-3 years, not only that helps immediately in our tough PSR situation, when the re-development starts we'll be offset 20-30mn loss from it rather than whatever sum it was now. 

[sidcow]

8 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

It does seem weird that FFP doesn't have allowances for temporary drops in revenue whilst a stadium is being redeveloped.

Surely if a club is losing £10m a year redeveloping a stand it wouldn't be controversial for owners to be able to top that up until work finishes.

 

6 hours ago, Alakagom said:

FFP does that have allowance, it offsets how much you lose.  Which is precisely why they delayed redevelopment I'm pretty sure, they plainly see that they can squeeze out say 10-20mn a year more out of the stand immediately within next 2-3 years, not only that helps immediately in our tough PSR situation, when the re-development starts we'll be offset 20-30mn loss from it rather than whatever sum it was now. 

I think the issue is more that you're losing the revenue than the FFP thing. It's still losing revenue you can't then spend on stuff. 

[sidcow]

8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

There's no intention by the club to move the stadium or replace a stand in the short or medium term. 

I have a feeling we won't see that happen under this ownership group.

 

I don't understand that. The owners were clearly on board with the new stand when Purslow was there.  How has Heck made them change their mind permanently regardless of future changes? Guy must be extremely persuasive. 

[sharkyvilla]

8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

There's no intention by the club to move the stadium or replace a stand in the short or medium term. 

I have a feeling we won't see that happen under this ownership group.

 

They're the main custodians of Villa Park, they can't let the ground, especially the North Stand, fall into any more disrepair.  They'll have to do something at some stage surely.

[villa89]

44 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I don't understand that. The owners were clearly on board with the new stand when Purslow was there.  How has Heck made them change their mind permanently regardless of future changes? Guy must be extremely persuasive. 

It's nothing to do with Purslow or Heck, it's to do with cost. The cost to expand the stadium isn't worth the return (in their opinion). They think they can increase revenue by making smaller incremental improvements without having to fork out a huge up front cost. The cost of the north stand re-development has probably doubled (*or more) since it was originally planned.

[andycv]

9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

There's no intention by the club to move the stadium or replace a stand in the short or medium term. 

I have a feeling we won't see that happen under this ownership group.

 

This is really interesting - and probably comes from the FAB?  What I don't understand if this is the case is Atairos investment and placing development experts on the board.  It doesn't make sense if they're not looking at fairly major redevelopment.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, villa89 said:

It's nothing to do with Purslow or Heck, it's to do with cost. The cost to expand the stadium isn't worth the return (in their opinion). They think they can increase revenue by making smaller incremental improvements without having to fork out a huge up front cost. The cost of the north stand re-development has probably doubled (*or more) since it was originally planned.

And will probably level off again in the next few years as competition bites and more normalcy returns to supply chains.    And meanwhile the price of tickets has also risen exponentially, it may be MORE attractive in a couple of years even with the doubling of price to build.