andycv Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 16 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Is it the set of plans that this model is based on? I thought those were Lerners - Doug wouldn't pay for coffee in 2005. Yes - and I think they were Doug’s too - for the reasons you’ve all discussed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Evans Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 One of the old planning applications has a rendering of the old Trinity Road stand with a new roof (two new central supports with the roof ascending upwards to match the fascia of the other stands; the frontage untouched). What I have never got to the bottom of is why this plan was abandoned. The plan seemed to morph into extending the stand and thereby losing the frontage and decorative walls. At some point they decided to demolish it completely. The sequencing and reasoning was never clear and, alas, the internet was in its infancy. If villa fans of that era could only have harnessed half of their later passionate hatred of the new badge…! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 53 minutes ago, Stephen_Evans said: One of the old planning applications has a rendering of the old Trinity Road stand with a new roof (two new central supports with the roof ascending upwards to match the fascia of the other stands; the frontage untouched). What I have never got to the bottom of is why this plan was abandoned. The plan seemed to morph into extending the stand and thereby losing the frontage and decorative walls. At some point they decided to demolish it completely. The sequencing and reasoning was never clear and, alas, the internet was in its infancy. If villa fans of that era could only have harnessed half of their later passionate hatred of the new badge…! I recall a note in teletext in 1997 saying that Villa would have reduced capacity for the final games of the 1996-97 season because the Teinity roof works were to commence. This never happened obviously. I guess they were going to copy how Ibrox retained their Leitch stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 57 minutes ago, Stephen_Evans said: One of the old planning applications has a rendering of the old Trinity Road stand with a new roof (two new central supports with the roof ascending upwards to match the fascia of the other stands; the frontage untouched). What I have never got to the bottom of is why this plan was abandoned. The plan seemed to morph into extending the stand and thereby losing the frontage and decorative walls. At some point they decided to demolish it completely. The sequencing and reasoning was never clear and, alas, the internet was in its infancy. If villa fans of that era could only have harnessed half of their later passionate hatred of the new badge…! I think basically the more they looked into the more it would cost, and Doug being Doug took the easier and cheaper option. Nowadays I think there would have been more of a protest about pulling down such an historic stand but the early 2000s football was still seen as a sport largely for the oiks and not to interfere with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, andycv said: Yes - and I think they were Doug’s too - for the reasons you’ve all discussed! Yes, you can clearly see this would have been to extend the existing North stand further out and with a new roof. with the corner flag demolished. I suppose the advantage would be to keep the stand open during building works but ultimately the core of the stand would still be nearly 50 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 3 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: Yes, you can clearly see this would have been to extend the existing North stand further out and with a new roof. with the corner flag demolished. I suppose the advantage would be to keep the stand open during building works but ultimately the core of the stand would still be nearly 50 years old Everyone says it would be impossible to do that but they had plans back then to do it. Doesn't make much sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 16 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Everyone says it would be impossible to do that but they had plans back then to do it. Doesn't make much sense to me. I agree. And I also don't understand how we could, in relatively recent memory, demolish the Holte End and the Trinity Road stands in 1994 and 2000 respectively and get an entire new structure built within the space of about 6 -10 months on each occasion and yet in 2024 it is a 24 month job? We even had thr lower Holte open to fans against Inter in 1994 whole the Upper Tier was under construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycv Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 3 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: I agree. And I also don't understand how we could, in relatively recent memory, demolish the Holte End and the Trinity Road stands in 1994 and 2000 respectively and get an entire new structure built within the space of about 6 -10 months on each occasion and yet in 2024 it is a 24 month job? We even had thr lower Holte open to fans against Inter in 1994 whole the Upper Tier was under construction. I can understand why it would take 24 months from start to finish to demolish and rebuild the North Stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 5 minutes ago, andycv said: I can understand why it would take 24 months from start to finish to demolish and rebuild the North Stand. Yeah it would be a lot higher spec than the Trinity which looks like it was made by Fisher Price. No issue with the time it would have taken, it's just the inconsistency over the goalpost structure making it impossible to do what they planned back then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycv Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said: Yeah it would be a lot higher spec than the Trinity which looks like it was made by Fisher Price. No issue with the time it would have taken, it's just the inconsistency over the goalpost structure making it impossible to do what they planned back then. It would be interesting to know if, having pulled the current plans, the club are looking at something like this again - given building around the old stand clearly is doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 19 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: I agree. And I also don't understand how we could, in relatively recent memory, demolish the Holte End and the Trinity Road stands in 1994 and 2000 respectively and get an entire new structure built within the space of about 6 -10 months on each occasion and yet in 2024 it is a 24 month job? We even had thr lower Holte open to fans against Inter in 1994 whole the Upper Tier was under construction. More complicated structures, building regs, more sub contractors? . When Doug did the Trinity it started in the summer 2000 and was ready for the England-Spain game (Sven's first) in early 2001- but I don't think the boxes had been completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 26 Moderator Share Posted June 26 14 minutes ago, andycv said: It would be interesting to know if, having pulled the current plans, the club are looking at something like this again - given building around the old stand clearly is doable. Yep, that's the interesting thing about those plans - pretty much everyone since has said it couldn't be done. If it can, then I think it has to become an option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 26 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: Yep, that's the interesting thing about those plans - pretty much everyone since has said it couldn't be done. If it can, then I think it has to become an option. My guess would be the costs involved in building around the existing structure are probably more than knocking it down and staring from scratch. I expect @villa4europe could provide a bit more expert commentary than that. Edited June 26 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, andycv said: I can understand why it would take 24 months from start to finish to demolish and rebuild the North Stand. OK. So it is obvious to you why it would take three times longer than the demolition and rebuilding of the Holte End took in 1994. That is fair enough. It isn't immediately obvious to me. In the 90s new stands seemed to go up very quickly at Anfield, Old Trafford, Villa Park, St James's Park etc. Edited June 26 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, sidcow said: My guess would be the costs involved in building around the existing structure are probably more than knocking it down and staring from scratch. I expect @villa4europe could provide a bit more expert commentary than that. Without diving in to the details I'd guess that yeah they'd be a lot more I can't fully understand how they did anfield but I think they effectively encased the existing stand with the new stand and then removed it, so basically the stand itself would be oversized At VP you start in the north car park with a huge foundation, steel frame up and over the roof with then either a canteliver or end posts or tying it to the other stands depending on the space and the weight distribution, you'd then finish the external face of it, then the internals, then you demolish the existing stand from inside the ground, you'd have a demo gang on the pitch, then you'd do the internal face of the new stand So I don't know what the north stand currently is, let's say front door to advertising boards 30m, the new stand would have to be say 50m, the floor area, which would probably end up as internal floor area, would have to be bigger which if we were always planning on having a huge stand (like what I'm guessing they did with the trinity and the corporate areas) its feasible, if they were planning on putting villa live or the shop in that space it's feasible but based on everything we've seen I don't know what villa do with a stand that big And that's before you factor in logistics, risk, temporary works, the loss of work faces etc ect Edited June 26 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 26 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: OK. So it is obvious to you why it would take three times longer than the demolition and rebuilding of the Holte End took in 1994. That is fair enough. It isn't immediately obvious to me. In the 90s new stands seemed to go up very quickly at Anfield, Old Trafford, Villa Park, St James's Park etc. New Anfield Road stand started in September 2021 and completed in December 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 26 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26 2 minutes ago, sidcow said: New Anfield Road stand started in September 2021 and completed in December 2023. I don't know why they bothered though because it's a waste of money building a new stand. Same with Fulham, what a bunch of idiots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 3 hours ago, andycv said: It would be interesting to know if, having pulled the current plans, the club are looking at something like this again - given building around the old stand clearly is doable. Is it ? Do you really trust Doug had detailed architect plans drawn up for a new north stand and not just some pie in the sky vanity project model made… it would never have happened as envisaged I can tell you that for certain 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Evans Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 19 minutes ago, thabucks said: Is it ? Do you really trust Doug had detailed architect plans drawn up for a new north stand and not just some pie in the sky vanity project model made… it would never have happened as envisaged I can tell you that for certain You might have a point! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) Liverpool retained what is now the lower tier of their main stand and built a new stand behind it, they then removed the old roof and connected the old and new stands. For perspective their main stand seats around 20k ours seats 12k … I can see a time where they look to expand the trinity by following the same route as it’s minimal disruption involved In terms of loss of capacity. With the north stand they need to spend a long time on enabling works to divert essential cabling , drainage where the new foundations would sit. They then have to sort out the levels before they think about any work. To demolish and clear the north stand would take more than an off season and we’d need to find somewhere else to play for a few months and you’d risk damaging the new structure behind. So it’s an expansive non starter. Easier and quicker just to level it once the enabling works were completed. Edited June 26 by thabucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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