blandy Posted March 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2022 45 minutes ago, thabucks said: Depending on the design you’d expect they could undertake a chunk of the build of a new North Stand similar to Liverpool's Main Stand & Anfield Road End … limiting the disruption. No expert, but those stands, Liverpool kept / are keeping the bottom tier and adding above. I don’t see that as likely for our North stand. The whole lot will surely have to come down, both because it’s narrow and because of the nature of it’s construction which has the big support girders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Phil Silvers said: The North standard could be massive, they should move admin and use the footage for accommodation, club shops, restaurants, banqueting etc add a third tier on any of the stands in the future and all being well on the pitch accommodating 65k fans should be a breeze. Steady on. That would be about a 30,000 capacity! I heard lots of chatter about this today at the game. I think the fanbase is very exicted to see how this develops. It is really showing a statement of intent for the owners that they are in it for the long haul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Steady on. That would be about a 30,000 capacity! I heard lots of chatter about this today at the game. I think the fanbase is very exicted to see how this develops. It is really showing a statement of intent for the owners that they are in it for the long haul. I think 65k is a realistic longterm target but we would have to be top6 consistently. 50k has to be the first phase plan which I think is the general consensus. Its all very exciting as you say. We could do with Chelsea going tits up, newcastle failing and ManU having their influence over pgmol cancelled. Plop and Pep to retire and it's all about us in the future, exactly as it always shod have been. Edit, I've had a couple as you can tell I'm.sure. Edited March 5, 2022 by Phil Silvers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Good signs to see another sell out today and Arsenal very close to one with 2 weeks to go. Exciting times to be a Villa fan! Edited March 5, 2022 by Brumstopdogs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Hopefully it won't be a full season without - but I think this is going to be a big build - we're looking at the potential redevelopment of everything from the goal line to the back gardens of the houses on Witton Road. I agree, I think we'll have a reduced away section. How long was the Trinity Road closed? I remember it partially reopening with the waterfall feature, but I can't remember how long it was just concrete. From memory we knocked it straight down the week after final game of 99/00. Was just a skeleton stand for first home game of next season but by November/December most of the seating was done. I actually went to England-Spain in early March 2001 and it was all open by then. Yeah agree it will be a big build but again I'm sure you can do some prep work before the big demolition although you would lose a decent amount of parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 @Phil Silvers the current stand capacities atVP are as follows Quote Villa Park comprises 42,640 seats shared between 4 stands. 1)The Holte End; capacity 13,472 (15k) 2)The North Stand; capacity 7,086 (18k) 3)The Doug Ellis Stand (capacity 9,081) 4)The Trinity Road Stand; capacity 12,954 (22k) New capacity https://www.avillafan.com/forum/index.php?/topic/8599-aston-villa-stats-and-facts/ To get to 65k means finding Twenty Three Thousand new seats - so here goes… 1) Add 2/3 new rows to top tier & increasing the overhang over the first. Square off top tier by building over road. 2) Whatever the design & how it’s configured it’s gunna have to be a behemoth of a stand which connects and wraps around to the Trinity 3) Cannot see a capacity increase being feasible & focus on increasing the concourse space.4) square off second tier. remove roof, add new 3rd tier and lounge levels, wrap around to new North Stand Ala SJP… And Viola you got yourself a 65k VP… External warehouse appearance from the motorway similar to Fort Dunlop perhaps or too pastiche ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, thabucks said: @Phil Silvers the current stand capacities atVP are as follows https://www.avillafan.com/forum/index.php?/topic/8599-aston-villa-stats-and-facts/ To get to 65k means finding Twenty Three Thousand new seats - so here goes… 1) Add 2/3 new rows to top tier & increasing the overhang over the first. Square off top tier by building over road. 2) Whatever the design & how it’s configured it’s gunna have to be a behemoth of a stand which connects and wraps around to the Trinity 3) Cannot see a capacity increase being feasible & focus on increasing the concourse space.4) square off second tier. remove roof, add new 3rd tier and lounge levels, wrap around to new North Stand Ala SJP… And Viola you got yourself a 65k VP… External warehouse appearance from the motorway similar to Fort Dunlop perhaps or too pastiche ? Sounds easy Sounds like a nightmare, if it can be attractive and generate the required revenue I'm happy with whatever capacity is realistically achievable without creating a bottomless pit of a project. I've always thought though that the main thing is that we and the grass are Villa Park and that the bricks and steal are unimportant. It being unique and attractive is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2022 3 hours ago, blandy said: No expert, but those stands, Liverpool kept / are keeping the bottom tier and adding above. I don’t see that as likely for our North stand. The whole lot will surely have to come down, both because it’s narrow and because of the nature of it’s construction which has the big support girders? They could probably leave the very front sections in place (the old terracing), remove the 70s structure then start building behind. That may only reduce the capacity by 5,000 or so. Maybe even get some temporary seating in place behind the front section. Edgbaston put temporary seats in for England games, Commonwealth Games are using temporary seats for a lot of the capacity. I think Wolves had quite a few seats on scaffolding for quite a while at Molineaux. Maybe we could keep the seating capacity down by only 3 or 4k with that method whilst the upper tier is built behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said: Good signs to see another sell out today and Arsenal very close to one with 2 weeks to go. Exciting times to be a Villa fan! I think there is a waiting list of about 20k for season tickets. We'd do 55k-60k now easy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Phil Silvers said: I think 65k is a realistic longterm target but we would have to be top6 consistently. 50k has to be the first phase plan which I think is the general consensus. Its all very exciting as you say. We could do with Chelsea going tits up, newcastle failing and ManU having their influence over pgmol cancelled. Plop and Pep to retire and it's all about us in the future, exactly as it always shod have been. Edit, I've had a couple as you can tell I'm.sure. All sounds perfectly reasonable to me Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: From memory we knocked it straight down the week after final game of 99/00. Was just a skeleton stand for first home game of next season but by November/December most of the seating was done. I actually went to England-Spain in early March 2001 and it was all open by then. Yeah agree it will be a big build but again I'm sure you can do some prep work before the big demolition although you would lose a decent amount of parking. We went to the Spurs game on a whim expecting to get tickets on the day (as normally you could have done in those days) only to realise the capacity was about 30,000 and had sold out. We ended up trying to watch the first half in Aston Park through the half built stand, and then gave up and went home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo's Socks Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 On 04/03/2022 at 18:18, OutByEaster? said: So, a full season you'd think with a maximum capacity of about 35,000. We'll be allowed to restrict away fans I'd have thought - probably to 1,500 or less, and the club would need about 500 of those seats for sponsors/players families /friends of the club/etc - and there'd be a need to relocate the hospitality supporters from the North Stand. That would leave maybe 32,500 tickets available per match - and probably around 29,000 of those gone to season ticket holders. What would be a fair way of allocating the remaining 3,500 on a game by game basis? We have 25,000 members and I think you'd need to find a way to put in a hierarchy - would members who have been members for three years get first dibs? Would you do a lottery of pairs of tickets shared between members? Would there be a situation whereby id you've been once you don't get to go again? Also, with 50,000, how many additional season tickets would you allocate? If we have 2,500 away fans and then the club/sponsors seats taken out - you'd potentially be looking at selling 47,000 seats a game - probably 3,000 of which would be in hospitality. I'd be tempted to only add another 2,000 season tickets or even leave it capped at 30,000 in order to let a wider number of fans through the door. I'd be interested to see how many of our current members attend regularly. I've heard stories of (for example) Liverpool fans purchasing a membership just to guarantee themselves a ticket for a Villa-Liverpool game, I could see plastic Mancs and Chelsea fans doing the same, so maybe the number has been inflated? My Father in law has a membership, but has only been to one game this season. There doesn't seem to be a mad rush for tickets once they go on sale to members, me and my lad (both members for 4 years) usually end up in the same seats, never struggle to get to a game. So I'm not sure just sticking to the same system for members match tickets wouldn't still work? With regards to season tickets, I don't think they'll add any more to be honest. I read somewhere that a club makes much more money from the day-tripper type fan who attends one or two games and spends a fortune in the club shop. Exciting times though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Personally I just can't see how VP could become a 60,000 seater plus stadium. Both the trinity and witton lane constrain capacity, along with Aston Park and residential property. And the Holte End narrows to the Holte Hotel. It would require huge amount of building work for a few thousand extra capacity, I can't really see it being cost effective unlike replacing the North Stand which makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 23 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Personally I just can't see how VP could become a 60,000 seater plus stadium. Both the trinity and witton lane constrain capacity, along with Aston Park and residential property. And the Holte End narrows to the Holte Hotel. It would require huge amount of building work for a few thousand extra capacity, I can't really see it being cost effective unlike replacing the North Stand which makes sense. Fill in the corners of the Holte End? How much extra would that add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, ender4 said: Fill in the corners of the Holte End? How much extra would that add? Like I said the Holte is angled from the Trinity road and is already right up to Witton lane. The only other way to increase capacity I would think is to add a third tier to the Doug Ellis. That would involve buying a lot of nearby property and then either building over the road or re-routing it, which be costly, and take a long time. It would also probably only add about another 5,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 6, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2022 2 hours ago, ender4 said: Fill in the corners of the Holte End? How much extra would that add? How do you do this? The Holte doesn't really have fillable corners - on the Doug Ellis side you'd have to move the Doug Ellis stand back to fill the corner, they already overlap - and on the Trinity Road side, the road means that the Holte is already cut off - there's no way the council will give us any more of the park and again, the Trinity Road stand would be in the way of a filled corner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 The goal post roof supports mean the holte can never be expanded bar squaring off the corner over the road… The council need to stop with their long term short-sightedness and think of the long term benefits of releasing in essence just a tiny tranche of the park for expansion purposes and what they would bring to the area in terms of investment into an underfunded part of the city. All hypothetical as the costs of adding a third tier to the trinity may not be possible due to ROI, sight-lines etc. We will just have to accept (which isn’t a bad thing) that staying at Villa Park means we will always be compromised somehow… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 6, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: Personally I just can't see how VP could become a 60,000 seater plus stadium. Both the trinity and witton lane constrain capacity, along with Aston Park and residential property. And the Holte End narrows to the Holte Hotel. It would require huge amount of building work for a few thousand extra capacity, I can't really see it being cost effective unlike replacing the North Stand which makes sense. No idea why you think this. All they need to do is what's planned, then buy a few houses along Holte Road, move the Witton Lane Gardens and Witton Lane backwards then build another tier on top of The Witton Lane stand, that would add the required extra 10,000 seats. Before you say the bit in bold text is not going to happen, too expensive or not worth it, that is exactly what Doug Ellis did when he added the current second tier to The Witton Lane stand. Doug was a total skinflint and a relative pauper compared to NSWE. It could easily be done. I could actually forsee them being able to turn a profit on it by buying houses on both sides of Holte Rd, possibly Yew Tree Road too and building apartment complexes instead. Could end up with more, and brand new well insulated, environmentaly friendly heated homes to sell to replace fewer inefficient older housing stock. Right next to a railway station too. Might end up being cost neutral or even profitable on the land acquisition whilst pleasing the council by building more homes and environmentaly friendly homes - that's going to help with the CPO. Edited March 6, 2022 by sidcow 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Property is far more expensive to buy now than 30 years ago. Any redevelopment needs to have the local community on board and casually mentioning we could buy and then move families on won't go down that well imo. The reason why the DE is as it is the height it is is entirely down to the nearby houses who put an objection in. It is not impossible, but would be a huge project if we ever went down this route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 6, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2022 The thing with that plan (and I think it's possible) is that we'd need to buy the two rows of houses and move the road (again possible) but I don't think you can just put another tier on top of the existing stand - you'd need to knock it down and start again. But then to get to 60,000, assuming that a new North Stand gets us to 50,000, you could build a stand that's the same size as the main stand at Anfield (currently the biggest single free standing stand in the country) and you'd still be at about 56,500. You can buy all that property, knock down the Doug Ellis, rebuild with the biggest stand in the country and you're still not getting to 60,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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