villabromsgrove Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Speculation is fine and is the life blood of forums, but can we have more "Positive" speculation please. These are exciting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted June 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2023 I think the club should come out officially and tell us what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted June 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 minute ago, villabromsgrove said: Speculation is fine and is the life blood of forums, but can we have more "Positive" speculation please. These are exciting times. I don't think it will change the development too much. There will just be parking where the proposed Villa Live building would have been. They will still go ahead with 'Villa way' in front of North stand, and this will likely be extended in an L-shape to meet the front of refurbed academy building. Presumably all the admin offices will be pushed to the far end of academy building and the fan zone stuff will be on the near end with a new entrance punched through the side elevation that faces the North stand. A minor benefit is that there will be unobstructed views of the new North Stand without the 3-storey Villa Live building in the way! The biggest uncertainty is how the North stand could accommodate the new shop and cafe. I presume there will be some big internal changes for that to work. Hope it doesn't squeeze any of the the other areas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycv Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, mikeyjavfc said: I don't think it will change the development too much. There will just be parking where the proposed Villa Live building would have been. They will still go ahead with 'Villa way' in front of North stand, and this will likely be extended in an L-shape to meet the front of refurbed academy building. Presumably all the admin offices will be pushed to the far end of academy building and the fan zone stuff will be on the near end with a new entrance punched through the side elevation that faces the North stand. A minor benefit is that there will be unobstructed views of the new North Stand without the 3-storey Villa Live building in the way! The biggest uncertainty is how the North stand could accommodate the new shop and cafe. I presume there will be some big internal changes for that to work. Hope it doesn't squeeze any of the the other areas. In the letter they said there'd be some elevation changes to the North Stand proposals - so I suspect it might be further extended to accommodate the shop and cafe. If it wasn't they'd (I think) be able to make the internal changes without any need for planning permission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2023 It's worth remembering that there are some significant changes to the Trinity Road Stand in the planning permission (including the removal and extension of some of the outer walls). They've not mentioned any changes to these plans and they are (I think) scheduled to be completed immediately after the opening of the new North Stand, so that the Hospitality guests are moved from Trinity to North Stand whilst the interior of the Trinity is remodelled. If we're looking to get that done prior to 2028, then they'll want to get started next summer you'd have thought, and the summer after at the very, very latest. The big problem remains out of our hands - the punch through tunnel at the end of Station Road that joins the Inner City Academy to Villa Park - I suspect that's a big part of the reason why they're holding fire on Villa Live - space is going to be at a Premium for the time being and will be until we can get the two sites linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravella82 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Hello all. Long time reader but first time poster here. I guess the reason I've finally decided to post is mainly down to the uncertain elements around the development of the North stand. I have to admit I've never been overly impressed with the plans made for the redevelopment. The walkway from the academy to stadium is good but I believe Villa Live appears too close to the stadium while the North stand itself does not give me any sense that it represents Aston Villa or Villa Park History. I would have loved the designs to be unique to us rather than have me think "Well, it's better than the current North stand but it looks a bit like the Anfield redevelopments." When I describe Villa park I describe red brickwork, stained glass, mosaics and stairs that lead into the stands. I describe the Holte End and I describe the old Trinity Road stand. I don't describe the North stand or the Witton lane stand because there is nothing really unique about them. Occasionally I describe the New Trinity with its Industrial panels but only to emphasize what has gone wrong. Watching the Chris Heck video on his thread a few days ago where he mentioned how important History was to the 76ers, I can only hope he is looking at the plans and seeing what improvements can be made so that he can ask Architects to bring forward designs that better represents Aston Villa, Villa Park and it's unique history in British Football. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLVillan Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Caravella82 said: Hello all. Long time reader but first time poster here. I guess the reason I've finally decided to post is mainly down to the uncertain elements around the development of the North stand. I have to admit I've never been overly impressed with the plans made for the redevelopment. The walkway from the academy to stadium is good but I believe Villa Live appears too close to the stadium while the North stand itself does not give me any sense that it represents Aston Villa or Villa Park History. I would have loved the designs to be unique to us rather than have me think "Well, it's better than the current North stand but it looks a bit like the Anfield redevelopments." When I describe Villa park I describe red brickwork, stained glass, mosaics and stairs that lead into the stands. I describe the Holte End and I describe the old Trinity Road stand. I don't describe the North stand or the Witton lane stand because there is nothing really unique about them. Occasionally I describe the New Trinity with its Industrial panels but only to emphasize what has gone wrong. Watching the Chris Heck video on his thread a few days ago where he mentioned how important History was to the 76ers, I can only hope he is looking at the plans and seeing what improvements can be made so that he can ask Architects to bring forward designs that better represents Aston Villa, Villa Park and it's unique history in British Football. I see where you're coming from on this, and agree with what you say to a point. On the flip side though, I think the new Holte was built the way it was to essentially become the new focal point after Ellis butchered the Trinity Rd, hence the architecture. From a viewing standpoint, the Holte is the most visible stand when approaching the ground, as two sides (Witton Lane and Witton End) are both hemmed in by housing and other infrastructure. Space around the ground is very limited and (I think) most designing is done with interior space, capacity and comfort in mind. I think we would all love to see a facade similar to the Holte on all four sides of the ground, but not necessarily at the expense of capacity and comfort. After all, it is inside the ground where all of us spend more of our time..... I think if the surrounding area had more open space, then it would be far more feasible to have grand brick facade and outside stairs leading up (like the Holte), but on the Witton side/end there just isn't the space to do it. Given the choice between a compromise in stand design/capacity or relocation to a more spacious plot of land, there is no discussion to be had among 99% of Villa fans. I for one am grateful to our last three owners (even the fraud Xia) that discussion about relocation to a shiny new 60,000-seat stadium somewhere outside Aston has never been raised. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravella82 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 6 hours ago, FLVillan said: I see where you're coming from on this, and agree with what you say to a point. On the flip side though, I think the new Holte was built the way it was to essentially become the new focal point after Ellis butchered the Trinity Rd, hence the architecture. From a viewing standpoint, the Holte is the most visible stand when approaching the ground, as two sides (Witton Lane and Witton End) are both hemmed in by housing and other infrastructure. Space around the ground is very limited and (I think) most designing is done with interior space, capacity and comfort in mind. I think we would all love to see a facade similar to the Holte on all four sides of the ground, but not necessarily at the expense of capacity and comfort. After all, it is inside the ground where all of us spend more of our time..... I think if the surrounding area had more open space, then it would be far more feasible to have grand brick facade and outside stairs leading up (like the Holte), but on the Witton side/end there just isn't the space to do it. Given the choice between a compromise in stand design/capacity or relocation to a more spacious plot of land, there is no discussion to be had among 99% of Villa fans. I for one am grateful to our last three owners (even the fraud Xia) that discussion about relocation to a shiny new 60,000-seat stadium somewhere outside Aston has never been raised. I'm still one of the 99% but I sometimes question whether I'm more attached to the walk and the sights around Villa Park rather than the stadium itself and it's four stands now. (Inside: I won't lie. I still miss the gable!) My opposition to moving stems from not wanting this journey to change. The same journey taken by every Villa fan attending a football match for over 100 years. With the Witton lane stand, I agree completely with the space issue but I don't believe that is the case with the North Stand. Space is there to create something unique to Villa and become a focal point to fans arriving from that side of the ground. I often look back on the plans designed during Lerner's time as chairman and if they had no name or marking on them I could have guessed it was Villa Park. I don't believe I could do that with the current designs. The stand seems closer to being built now than it ever was during that period and I will give far more credit to our current owners before a single brick is put down. But for all of Lerner's faults, I do believe those designs were driven by Lerner's appreciation of Villa's history, Villa Park and it's architecture. An example he showed by his restoration of the Holte End. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Sorry but I can't agree with that. Letner's plans for the Witton end were a cross between the new trinity and Old Trafford. It was also a full wrap around I think the NSWE plans are more in keeping with Villa Park and the aesthetic of four distinct stands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravella82 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: Sorry but I can't agree with that. Letner's plans for the Witton end were a cross between the new trinity and Old Trafford. It was also a full wrap around I think the NSWE plans are more in keeping with Villa Park and the aesthetic of four distinct stands. The wrap around was a bad idea for Villa Park but I believe that was the trend of the time in which they were designed in a similar way that I don't judge the Holte End for being two tier when it should always have been single. That was the way stadium designs were going in the 90's. With the designs that came out around Lerner's time, I believe there were three options. Wrap around with stairs, Wrap around without stairs and an individual stand. I've only ever seen pictures of the plans for the wrap arounds but they both felt like me to have been inspired by the history of Villa Park. I can't think of any other stadiums built in such close proximity to a 17th century Jacobean manor. The elegant design of the old Trinity Road stand and it's nod to this meant, to me, that Villa park belonged exactly where it was. The Holte carries this on and I hope any further stand design would. I don't mind the current plans by the way. They are fine. But this is Villa Park I would like better than fine or OK. I would like something unique to Villa. Edited July 1, 2023 by Caravella82 Spelling auto correct error 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: Sorry but I can't agree with that. Letner's plans for the Witton end were a cross between the new trinity and Old Trafford. It was also a full wrap around I think the NSWE plans are more in keeping with Villa Park and the aesthetic of four distinct stands. It was barely a plan, I don't think they even got to pre-ap with it. Someone just shared some mock up drawings on the forum once. This has progressed a lot further down the road. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I've been in the Doug Ellis tonight for the Supercross racing event. The service was appalling, as was the prices of everything. It also dawned on me for the first time just how narrow that concourse is. It's a safety hazard for you. I hope that the next project we have for development is to either knock down the Doug Ellis or rebuild it and extend it back over the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Villarocker said: I've been in the Doug Ellis tonight for the Supercross racing event. The service was appalling, as was the prices of everything. It also dawned on me for the first time just how narrow that concourse is. It's a safety hazard for you. I hope that the next project we have for development is to either knock down the Doug Ellis or rebuild it and extend it back over the road. Might need to ask all the residents who live there how they feel about that idea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said: Might need to ask all the residents who live there how they feel about that idea Exactly like we did with the current stand. You buy their houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villatillidie95 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 We could offer a significant premium to entice the residents to leave. A lot would take it if you offered 25-50% above market value, especially when they could just buy a similar house around the corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said: Might need to ask all the residents who live there how they feel about that idea Without it, Villa Park won't ever be able to call itself a "world class entertainment venue". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 48 minutes ago, sidcow said: Exactly like we did with the current stand. You buy their houses. Yes indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2023 Getting BCC to knock down housing stock and sell land at a time when the political atmosphere in the UK is obsessed with homebuilding might prove a rather sizeable obstacle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 22 hours ago, Villarocker said: It also dawned on me for the first time just how narrow that concourse is. It's a safety hazard for you. My thoughts exactly. I've sat in that stand once, and never will again until the thing is expanded or replaced. For a packed out game it feels a bit unsafe to me. That makes half of our stadium I find less appealing than sitting at home and watching on a little river, because the north stand is a **** shit tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: My thoughts exactly. I've sat in that stand once, and never will again until the thing is expanded or replaced. For a packed out game it feels a bit unsafe to me. That makes half of our stadium I find less appealing than sitting at home and watching on a little river, because the north stand is a **** shit tip. The North stand did at least have price going for it before they went crazy last year and decided to charge premium rate for terrible experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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