Villa Park redevelopment

[The Fun Factory]

11 hours ago, brommy said:

I do appreciate the Upper Holte currently has a mahoosive amount of space compared to especially the D.E. and current North Stands.

Yes. One of the reasons I moved the from the North Stand when they put the prices up last year. The difference in concourse space between the upper North and Upper Holte is quite something.

Edited April 14, 2023 by The Fun Factory

[DaveAV1]

Whatever the plans are, we need to remember we have two very ambitious billionaires pulling the strings. Infrastructure doesn’t impact on ffp, other than increased income. So far the plans for the new North Stand have a cost of around £100m, which is a pilfering amount to gentlemen that are happy to spend that sort of cash on footballers and their wages. 

Whatever we build it won’t be hampered by any Doug Ellis attitude to investment, short or long term. 

[The Fun Factory]

5 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

Problem with Witton Lane is the houses there. Building further house would cause them issues. Course Doug could have bought all the land for a pittance and decided not to. I don't think having it look like the Trinity will be popular either

The original application was for the stand to be higher but they had to lower it because of objections from local residents. We did buy an entire row and demolished with the witton lane gardens put in, which is hardly used on matchdays.

[brommy]

7 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said:

With the new North Stand we get to 50,000. For me, the obvious next move is Witton Lane. As things stand the current Witton Lane Stand is about 3,500 seats smaller than the Trinity (and a lot more cramped). 

I would not be surprised to learn that they have figured out a way to build a new Stand on Witton Lane - maybe diverting the road under the Stand- and this new Stand will, aesthetically, look like the Trinity but won't quite be on the same scale. So, that's our extra 2,000 or so seats (and better facilities).

Overhangs, digging down etc? I just don't see it. 

 

This extra seats we've been talking about comes from the capacity listed for Villa Park in the official bid for the Euros in Summer 2028. The expanded capacity is stated as 52,190, some 2125 higher than the 50,065 quoted by Villa following the completion of the forthcoming approved phase of works - replacing the existing North Stand and upgrading the existing hospitality areas (primarily in the Trinity Road Stand).

I really don't think these extra 2125 seats will be in a new stand on Witton Lane, for three reasons:

1. It hasn't even been proposed yet. Then there's the lengthy consultation and approval process so final build completion in good time for UEFA's inspections prior to the Summer 2028 tournament would be very difficult and possibly too rushed.

2. If Villa are to replace the stand on Witton Lane it would probably be the biggest part of the recently stated desire for a 'future Villa Park' to reach 60,000 capacity. This would require building a new stand with far more additional capacity than 2125.

3. Building a totally new stand on Witton Lane would cost probably as much as the North Stand phase - around £100m. Possibly worth it for an additional 8k seats, almost definitely not worth it for 2k seats.

[sidcow]

Just now, brommy said:

This extra seats we've been talking about comes from the capacity listed for Villa Park in the official bid for the Euros in Summer 2028. The expanded capacity is stated as 52,190, some 2125 higher than the 50,065 quoted by Villa following the completion of the forthcoming approved phase of works - replacing the existing North Stand and upgrading the existing hospitality areas (primarily in the Trinity Road Stand).

I really don't think these extra 2125 seats will be in a new stand on Witton Lane, for three reasons:

1. It hasn't even been proposed yet. Then there's the lengthy consultation and approval process so final build completion in good time for UEFA's inspections prior to the Summer 2028 tournament would be very difficult and possibly too rushed.

2. If Villa are to replace the stand on Witton Lane it would probably be the biggest part of the recently stated desire for a 'future Villa Park' to reach 60,000 capacity. This would require building a new stand with far more additional capacity than 2125.

3. Building a totally new stand on Witton Lane would cost probably as much as the North Stand phase - around £100m. Possibly worth it for an additional 8k seats, almost definitely not worth it for 2k seats.

4. The club stated it was connected to changes to The Holte End and The Trinity Road stands. 

[brommy]

4 minutes ago, sidcow said:

4. The club stated it was connected to changes to The Holte End and The Trinity Road stands. 

Yes, I should've saved my efforts and written that!

[sidcow]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

4. The club stated it was connected to changes to The Holte End and The Trinity Road stands. 

 

1 minute ago, brommy said:

Yes, I should've saved my efforts and written that!

Actually re-reading it's changes to The Holte and The Witton Lane Stand, but it's not going to be major like adding another deck at this stage. 

Maybe it actually is reprofiling the rake of Witton Lane and filling in the corner. 

Anyway, they've spotted something. 

[Captain_Townsend]

To clarify, I am talking about a new Witton along the lines of the Trinity except not as high and built over the road on witton lane. Badically a two-tier, deeper stand with better facilities which down the line could be expanded with a third tier added (like Sunderland).

The existing Witton Lane stand is a terrible design, cramped, and I doubt it could have a third tier added.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Captain_Townsend

[The Fun Factory]

17 minutes ago, sidcow said:

 

Actually re-reading it's changes to The Holte and The Witton Lane Stand, but it's not going to be major like adding another deck at this stage. 

Maybe it actually is reprofiling the rake of Witton Lane and filling in the corner. 

Anyway, they've spotted something. 

Yes but the lower was already reprofiled after it was built to improve the rake, though has resulted in restricted views in the corner of the lower holte. And as already mentioned I can't see how they can add to the upper tier without basically taking the roof off and going over the road like the trinity, which would be a big job and not yet mentioned by the club.  This is all guesswork though.

[Lochheads twin]

After yesterday’s magnificent performance they need to get this started asap!

[Hank Scorpio]

So with the price rises for upper north, when exactly is the stand being demolished? I thought I read it has been delayed?

Would existing season ticket holders get moved to another empty seat elsewhere, and I am assuming given how football works, be asked to pay the price of that stand, and not the north stand previous pricing?

Edited April 24, 2023 by Hank Scorpio

[OutByEaster?]

14 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

So with the price rises for upper north, when exactly is the stand being demolished? I thought I read it has been delayed?

The plan is to demolish in the summer of 2024. 

The key factors in that remain inflation, availability and cost of materials and equipment and whether there are constructors and contractors knocking on Mr Purslow's door offering to carry out the work.

If by some magical confluence of events all of those facts slipped into a perfect mush tomorrow morning, the club haven't completely ruled out doing it this summer - I would guess that if all of those factors are still out of whack next summer the club would consider leaving it until the summer of 2025.

It's a two year construction job and they'll want it ready for 2028 if our bid is successful, there's still plenty of time for that deadline, and there's absolutely no guarantee that we will get the Euros (we're probably not favourites), so if that doesn't happen, the clubs only deadline is the expiration of the planning permission.

Favourite in this race is 2024, I wouldn't completely rule out 2025.

 

[Richie k]

I know its come up before but are there any more renders of what the inside will look like?

Theres lots of images around of the outside that are fairly detailed but i still cant picture how the lower tiers will join the corners of the other stands as both of their lower tiers are of a different size.

[brommy]

30 minutes ago, Richie k said:

I know its come up before but are there any more renders of what the inside will look like?

Theres lots of images around of the outside that are fairly detailed but i still cant picture how the lower tiers will join the corners of the other stands as both of their lower tiers are of a different size.

The back of the North Stand lower tier is expected to meet the back of the lower/middle tier of the Trinity but be higher than the back of the D.E. Stand. It'll look good on the Trinity Road Stand side but quite odd on the D.E. Stand side.

I'm predicting some negative comments about the mismatch but I'm not sure what else could be done, without compromising the capacity. Hopefully the lower tiers will match up better when the D.E. Stand is eventually replaced.

[Chine]

I was told yesterday that the development work may be put on hold due to the availability of equipment needed , cranes etc all working on HS2, another factor that was mentioned that would delay is if and when we make it into Europe they want the stadium at full capacity.

[VillaJ100]

Nearly all HS2 work north of the delta junction is on hold (read cancelled) so that should free some stuff up?

[brommy]

49 minutes ago, Chine said:

I was told yesterday that the development work may be put on hold due to the availability of equipment needed , cranes etc all working on HS2, another factor that was mentioned that would delay is if and when we make it into Europe they want the stadium at full capacity.

Villa Park will be at full capacity next season, whether or not we're playing in European competition, as the work (at least the demolition work reducing the capacity) wasn't expected to start yet.

Plus, by saying expansion work won't start if we're in Europe, what happens if we're playing in Europe for several seasons? No expansion at all and potentially miss hosting Euro 28 games?

[Captain_Townsend]

I can't understand why it will be a 2 year build.

The Trinity Road Stand was built in about 6 months back in 2000. I am pretty sure it was the same with the new Holte. We also had fans in both those stands before they were fully completed. Lower Holte was open for the Inter game. 

You would think we could get about 5,000-6,000 into the new stand by say the mid point of the season it is under construction? Maybe regulations are different now?

Edited May 22, 2023 by Captain_Townsend

[brommy]

4 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

I can't understand why it will be a 2 year build.

The Trinity Road Stand was built in about 6 months back in 2000. I am pretty sure it was the same with the new Holte. We also had fans in both those stands before they were fully completed. Lower Holte was open for the Inter game. 

You would think we could get aboit 5,000-6,000 into the new stand by say the mid point of the season it is under construction?

Has a construction timeline been published?

I can see why it could take two years from the very first work (perhaps demolition of the buildings in the North Stand car park through to the full opening of the Villa Live facilities and Villa Park link and subway under the railway to the new Villa Academy at Brookvale Road).

I don't think the plan is for the North Stand end of Villa Park to be totally unoccupied for two whole seasons.

[Chine]

33 minutes ago, brommy said:

Villa Park will be at full capacity next season, whether or not we're playing in European competition, as the work (at least the demolition work reducing the capacity) wasn't expected to start yet.

Plus, by saying expansion work won't start if we're in Europe, what happens if we're playing in Europe for several seasons? No expansion at all and potentially miss hosting Euro 28 games?

He wasn’t talking about next season he was talking about the one after when the work is supposed to be underway , I suppose no expansion could be a possibility