Richard Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 19 minutes ago, terrytini said: 2. Although it all makes sense I am still - reluctantly - of the view that, because of the money gap this/next year, we MUST get up first go. Yes it is short termisim but I can't see how we can risk anything else. You know what I too was worried a little about the money aspect but I'm coming round to thinking like this now: How really important is money to a club like us? Are we going to compete to win things in that league by spending big under the current owner? No not really as that is not what his aim is or the aim of those around him from the noises we have heard. The only way we are going to do it is by limited player investment and building a philosophy of squad development and growth in a similar way that we have seen at other clubs who do not have billionarie owners. Sure money helps to get a bit more quality than others but ultimately in the model we are operating right now the model is the biggest long term generator of growth and revenue. Probably not explaining myself too well but I dont think the addition of 10 or 20M more to sky revenue will make that much difference to whether we can have long term success or not, especially under the current owner. We are only going to spend big if we get a new billionare owner. So getting back first time to re enter the gravy train is not a biggy for me any longer, especially as it was trying to compete unsustainably with the gravy train which helped to get us where we are now. Setting everything to get up first time to get that back sort of repeats past mistakes which contributed to where we are now and is what the club's current culture is all about 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted April 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2016 I don't think the board would risk Rowett for multiple a multiple of reasons, it would be a brave move by them and I'm not sure that this board would be willing to make such a "ballsy" move as their first managerial appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 If we have learnt anything under Randy, it is not how much is being spent, it is who is in charge of spending it. If we get back on track in the championship it will provide stabilty for years to come, and that in turn is what will keep us in the prem if we get back. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Just now, PieFacE said: I don't think the board would risk Rowett for multiple a multiple of reasons, it would be a brave move by them and I'm not sure that this board would be willing to make such a "ballsy" move as their first managerial appointment. New board, differnt circumstances. Plus "real" people, who have connection to the club, know the score they know what the fans would accept and what they wouldnt accept. I genuinely believe Brian Little knows the score, I genuinely believe he wouldn't have an issue with Rowett and knows the fans wouldnt have an issue either. I know that Steve Hollis also knows this and that some fans would like Rowett and would advise Rowett if he asked them (!!!!). So I dont see it being an issue for them to appoint him if they want. People may also say why would e come here. But seriously what is he going to achieve at sha? Continually in play offs or top two only to struggle the next season because the club does not have the infrastructure or where with all to then kick on? Or a club like Villa, the biggest in the midlands with huge infrastructure and potential that he can build something at and really make his name in the game if he wants to manage higher. I think if approached sha would allow the talk as they want the cash. If allowed to talk to him he would not take much persuading to come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Bottom line I think we are right for him and he is right for us. I truly think right manager right time. Our past appointments have been a combination of right manager wrong time, wrong manager right time and Sherwood who was wrong manager wrong time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted April 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2016 Just now, Richard said: New board, differnt circumstances. Plus "real" people, who have connection to the club, know the score they know what the fans would accept and what they wouldnt accept. I genuinely believe Brian Little knows the score, I genuinely believe he wouldn't have an issue with Rowett and knows the fans wouldnt have an issue either. I know that Steve Hollis also knows this and that some fans would like Rowett and would advise Rowett if he asked them (!!!!). So I dont see it being an issue for them to appoint him if they want. People may also say why would e come here. But seriously what is he going to achieve at sha? Continually in play offs or top two only to struggle the next season because the club does not have the infrastructure or where with all to then kick on? Or a club like Villa, the biggest in the midlands with huge infrastructure and potential that he can build something at and really make his name in the game if he wants to manage higher. I think if approached sha would allow the talk as they want the cash. If allowed to talk to him he would not take much persuading to come. Problem is, I think some fans would have an issue with Rowett because he's from Birmingham City. Not the majority, but some, and the minority are always the loudest. The problem would be that if we lost our first 3 or 4 games, that minority would be too loud. Rowett wouldn't get the time and grace that Garde has had for example, when we drop down, fans will be expecting to come straight back up and winning football matches. If Rowett doesn't give signs of that in the first 5 games, people will be calling for him to be sacked. I don't like this mentality, I certainly wouldn't be part of that group, but I certainly think it will exist. I don't doubt for one second that Rowett would jump ship if offered. It would be an absolutely fantastic opportunity for him, and personally, I'd like to see him get the job and see what he can do. I think he'd be a really good influence for players like Grealish. But with all that said, I think they will go for a Pearson / McCarthy type, someone who has previous of getting promoted to the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 1 minute ago, PieFacE said: Problem is, I think some fans would have an issue with Rowett because he's from Birmingham City. Not the majority, but some, and the minority are always the loudest. The problem would be that if we lost our first 3 or 4 games, that minority would be too loud. Rowett wouldn't get the time and grace that Garde has had for example, when we drop down, fans will be expecting to come straight back up and winning football matches. If Rowett doesn't give signs of that in the first 5 games, people will be calling for him to be sacked. I don't like this mentality, I certainly wouldn't be part of that group, but I certainly think it will exist. You could say that for any manager and the board know this too. Not every manager will be universally popular, expectations will be on them all. Lose the first 4 or 5 under any manager and the same would happen. No manager can guarantee immediate success and not losing matches. The modern fan is an issue for most clubs. I just hope the club plumps for someone who would look beyond this for the culture change that is what the club needs not a paper over the cracks short term appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Richard said: I can only speak for myself but 1. Having viewed numerous Burton Albion games and some evidence of sha games, he is a manager who believes in a positive approach to the style of football he wants his teams to play ... 4. Gary Rowett has genuine affection and care for Aston Villa. Given the mess we are in as a club and with the relationship between the club and fans never having been as bad it is my opinion that we need someone able to come in and buy into Aston Villa, not just be here for the wages but be here because they believe in Aston Villa, because they are Villa really, I believe this will unite the club somewhat at a time this is needed above all else. In my opinion before we can hope to rebuild as a club we need to come together and I don't see that happening soon. 6. I dont want a journeyman washed up been around for ages manager. No thanks, but managers better than that are not likely to see Villa as a step up. Rowett will see the club as a step up and quite frankly is one of the best young managers in the country, IMO. I'm going against all of the bits in bold here. We really need to get away from Rowett having some exciting brand of football - he doesn't. He does exactly what Garde, Moyes et al try to do by setting up the team not to concede and edge games. Birmingham are one of the dullest teams in the Championship but they don't get hammered. They grind out wins or narrowly lose. That's what Rowett has done well - steady the ship, but he's not an entertaining football kind of guy. I'm happy with that, but saying he has a "positive approach to the style of football" is completely incorrect. r.e: point 4, does he really have affection and care for Aston Villa? Where is any evidence of this? I think he respects Blues more than Villa right now, and couldn't see him jumping ship to their biggest rivals, when they're about to be in the same division. That also ties in with point 6 - he'd be "testing himself" in the same league he's currently in, with a much more unsettled squad. Bigger club, sure. More potential and money, sure. A step up, perhaps, but one worth taking? Not right now. Just can't see any real reason why he'd come to Villa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Looking at the make up of the board, I would be surprised if they did not go for the safe option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Oh no the genius Tony Pulis has ruled himself out, thats my weekend ruined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: Oh no the genius Tony Pulis has ruled himself out, thats my weekend ruined To be honest there would probably be nobody better at steadying the ship, getting us promoted and keeping us up for a couple of seasons. I'd be quite happy with Pulis for the next 3 seasons, he would do the same job Sam did at West Ham. His football isn't great but it would not be anywhere near as bad as the drivvle we have served up under Garde/Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I'd rather play in the Conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Richard said: You know what I too was worried a little about the money aspect but I'm coming round to thinking like this now: How really important is money to a club like us? Are we going to compete to win things in that league by spending big under the current owner? No not really as that is not what his aim is or the aim of those around him from the noises we have heard. The only way we are going to do it is by limited player investment and building a philosophy of squad development and growth in a similar way that we have seen at other clubs who do not have billionarie owners. Sure money helps to get a bit more quality than others but ultimately in the model we are operating right now the model is the biggest long term generator of growth and revenue. Probably not explaining myself too well but I dont think the addition of 10 or 20M more to sky revenue will make that much difference to whether we can have long term success or not, especially under the current owner. We are only going to spend big if we get a new billionare owner. So getting back first time to re enter the gravy train is not a biggy for me any longer, especially as it was trying to compete unsustainably with the gravy train which helped to get us where we are now. Setting everything to get up first time to get that back sort of repeats past mistakes which contributed to where we are now and is what the club's current culture is all about The new premiership money means that in two years time we will be so far behind in terms of club revenue. The promoted championship teams from this season and next will be the main yoyo clubs for a number of seasons after. If we don't bounce straight back up we will have lost far more ground than just having a good set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 To anyone questioning why we should favour a manager who can both get us promoted AND keep us in the Prem, my answer to this, is that it feels too good to be true to hope that our board would make two good decisions like that. If our board successfully hired a manager who got us promoted, I would be surprised (not because I don't have faith in the new board, but because it's out of keeping with our recent record of appointments). If our manager got us promoted and was viewed as an 'up and down' manager like Bruce, then I find it even less likely that the board would firstly make the decision to get rid, and secondly spend the money to pay off another contract so soon! That's part of the reason why Moyes is top of my list, but also why I wouldn't mind a manager like Rowett who has shown promise at Championship level, and doesn't have a history of getting relegated (yet!) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Richard said: I can only speak for myself but 1. Having viewed numerous Burton Albion games and some evidence of sha games, he is a manager who believes in a positive approach to the style of football he wants his teams to play 2. He is a manager who has a resolve and personality to not take any shit from his players, they know who is boss and are motivated to play for him 3. He came into a club which was arguably in a bugger mess than us being on the verge of relegation to league one, steadied the ship and brought some limited success using very minimal resources and in difficult circumstances, he can work with an absent owner which is an advantage. 4. Gary Rowett has genuine affection and care for Aston Villa. Given the mess we are in as a club and with the relationship between the club and fans never having been as bad it is my opinion that we need someone able to come in and buy into Aston Villa, not just be here for the wages but be here because they believe in Aston Villa, because they are Villa really, I believe this will unite the club somewhat at a time this is needed above all else. In my opinion before we can hope to rebuild as a club we need to come together and I don't see that happening soon. 5. He would not be a short term fix, I've seen many saying just get a manager to get us up. I don't want that it is the worst kind of short termism as I genuinely believe that way leads to us being a yo yo club and not resolving the under lying issues. Sure I want us promoted but I want us to have sustainable promotion and growth. At the minute i'm more concerned with someone coming in and correcting the core problem before we go down again. So I'd actually argue that stabilising us is first point to achieve. If we do not get promoted next season but turned around the club and showed we were on course for sustainable growth with a complete change to our culture to make us a truly competitive club I'd take that. We need someone for the here and now, sure, but that someone also has to have the ability to build a future. 6. I dont want a journeyman washed up been around for ages manager. No thanks, but managers better than that are not likely to see Villa as a step up. Rowett will see the club as a step up and quite frankly is one of the best young managers in the country, IMO. You saved me having to write something like this so thanks. i will add that what he has done at Blose is nothing short of a miracle. That squad is absolutely shocking yet he has found a way to get the best out of them. Even when we beat them this season, he conducted himself well in the game. I really do like Rowett and feel he is wasted there. Look at burton Albion, he put the foundations there and they could be playing us next season. I dont care we might hate blose but they are better at recruiting managers than we have been in the last few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 11 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: I'd rather play in the Conference. Give it 4 years........... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I really don't have much faith in this board at all at the moment. There may be some distinguished names there but what I've seen so far suggests that their ideas are quite outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2016 12 minutes ago, Mantis said: I really don't have much faith in this board at all at the moment. There may be some distinguished names there but what I've seen so far suggests that their ideas are quite outdated. What have you seen so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 that they want the "evil" British manager? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: What have you seen so far? The British/English manager requirement. As I've said countless times (which certain people seem to just ignore) I've got nothing against having a British manager and in fact my first choice would probably be Moyes. I just think it's rather backwards to specifically restrict yourself when it comes to nationality. If Karanka for example became available he'd be a much better option than many of the British names being bandied about. 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: that they want the "evil" British manager? Try actually reading my posts from time to time 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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