snowychap Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: if stay had won And we'd still be hearing the phrase ' the British people voted for' only it would have been coming out of the mouths of Cameron and Osborne (and May). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 9 hours ago, tonyh29 said: ....why a cheap shot at the £ ? Ha ha ha - I'm enjoying the chaos . The worst government in my lifetime is struggling to contain the idiocy they've released. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 13 hours ago, Awol said: ...Taken together that would indicate people were voting for the core themes which the Leave campaign proposed, none of which are compatible with membership of the customs union. I think a great many Leavers knew exactly what they were voting for, but it suits Remainers to suggest that they didn't (or were simply covering for their retarded racism) in order to fight a rear guard action against Brexit. Still it's pretty academic now, we will end up leaving the single market and going down the free trade route, however much the Tories may actually wish to avoid it. Anything else is political suicide. 12 hours ago, peterms said: Remaining in the single market was a specific Tory manifesto commitment, was it not? 5 hours ago, Awol said: No idea, but seems a strange thing to promise when Cameron wouldn't countenance the possibility of leaving the EU? Why else would they need to make such a promise? I gather the wording in the manifesto was something like "We say yes to the single market". It will be interesting to see if any tories try to make a case that this wasn't indicating a commitment to remain in the single market, but was more like acknowledging as a matter of empirical observation that there is in fact such a thing as the single market but making no commitment to be part of it, or some similar linguistic game. I think most of them will acknowledge that it was a commitment to remain in the single market, whatever the outcome of the referendum. So the logical position would be to seek to leave the EU and stay in the single market, which is what Clarke, Soubry and others are arguing. But that is incompatible with preventing immigration, so those two things can't be delivered alongside the other manifesto commitment to limit net migration to the tens of thousands (of course it would be hard to deliver that in any context, without also being able to control the number of people emigrating, but let's leave that to one side). So what were people voting for? You say most knew what they were voting for. I suggest the vote was more a negative one - an expression of dissatisfaction with probably a range of things. How can anyone say they knew what they were voting for with regard to the position on trade links? We have no idea even now what is on the table in that respect, and Mrs May doesn't want even Parliament to take a view on what the offer should be, so to say that anyone could have voted for something in that respect is plainly wrong - there was no offer, no coherent proposition about what the new arrangements would be, just a lot of waffle from oafs like Johnson. One way to deal with that would have been to offer a choice between voting for leaving the EU but staying in the single market, or leaving both. The objection would have been that this was an attempt to split the leave vote. Another option would be to seek to negotiate alternative arrangements, and then to seek endorsement of that, putting it either to Parliament or a referendum or both, on the basis that this was the best deal that could be negotiated, the consequences will be a and b and c...so do you now wish to proceed on this basis or stay as we are. The problem with that, is that the game has now become about the tory party trying to eclipse Ukip. Things like our trade arrangements and the economy are completely secondary to that. Some tories recognise this, and are frankly shocked and ashamed by it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2016 Food prices up, you can't buy Hellman's or Pot Noodles in Tesco, petrol's up already... I'm sure all the poor people that voted Leave voted to make the contents of their wallet go even less far than it already did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 13, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, peterms said: Another option would be to seek to negotiate alternative arrangements, and then to seek endorsement of that, putting it either to Parliament or a referendum or both, on the basis that this was the best deal that could be negotiated, the consequences will be a and b and c...so do you now wish to proceed on this basis or stay as we are. That's kind of what Cameron pretended he was doing, wasn't it? I mean obviously he messed it up - they mess everything up - but he started off by saying I'm going to go off to yurp and get a new deal for the UK, and I won't take no for an answer. what he half heartedly got, in the cold light of reality, turned out to be nothing like what he promised, but that's no surprise, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 sensible shopping, non branded food and who knows maybe even buying stuff made here rather than imported or people could look at unilever and say they've made a lot of money in the first quarter and are trying to make even more and are happily using brexit as a cover, they're taking the piss out of the consumer due to the £ dropping unilever's margin has dropped by circa 1.5% and they want to add 10% on to their products, **** them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post choffer Posted October 13, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Food prices up, you can't buy Hellman's or Pot Noodles in Tesco, petrol's up already... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 If the Jocks get a second referendum then will that not negate the argument against a second EU referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 54 minutes ago, villa4europe said: sensible shopping, non branded food and who knows maybe even buying stuff made here rather than imported or people could look at unilever and say they've made a lot of money in the first quarter and are trying to make even more and are happily using brexit as a cover, they're taking the piss out of the consumer due to the £ dropping unilever's margin has dropped by circa 1.5% and they want to add 10% on to their products, **** them it happens all the time couple of years back you couldn't buy Pepsimax etc in Tesco for a short while .. the 2 companies had a bit of a disagreement on how much they were prepared to pay for it / sell it for lasted a few weeks and was then resolved , I guess as it wasn't "Brexit " related it wasn't deemed Newsworthy at the time 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Awol said: Why not? An FTA with the UK post Brexit would represent their single largest free trade deal? It's odd to believe they wouldn't want it. I presume this rhetoric, but do you actually need someone to explain why Europe wants the single market as opposed to an 1800s-style FTA? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: it happens all the time couple of years back you couldn't buy Pepsimax etc in Tesco for a short while .. the 2 companies had a bit of a disagreement on how much they were prepared to pay for it / sell it for lasted a few weeks and was then resolved , I guess as it wasn't "Brexit " related it wasn't deemed Newsworthy at the time My boss is good friends with someone in purchasing at Tesco, this kind of standoff happens all the time. The manufacturers restrict supply and its a case of who blinks first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: If the Jocks get a second referendum then will that not negate the argument against a second EU referendum? Well they certainly want one , sell Sturgeon does though how does she sell UK leaving the European Union is bad so best thing for Scotland is to leave another Union ... She still has no answer on currency , Central bank , deficit , low oil price obliterating the previous economic stats they used to back up being independent and lastly if they left UK would they automatically be allowed into EU( on paper its a now given their current deficit ) What it does show is referendums with a binary choice never settled debate.SNP lost but have spent 2 years looking for a way to rerun it. Remain lost and are looking for a rerun ( likely that if Remain one Leave would be pushing to go again) so we just go round and round in circles with a divided country/UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Nabby said: so we just go round and round in circles with a divided country/UK There's absolutely no way to reunite the country at this point, whichever way they go, we're divided now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Chindie said: you can't buy Hellman's or Pot Noodles in Tesco First good news that Brexit has lead to. The national diet will be improved by Unilever's garbage not on shelves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: There's absolutely no way to reunite the country at this point, whichever way they go, we're divided now. Agreed sadly , such strong opinions on both sides now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 13, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Britain imports more than it exports, so a very weak pound will lead to price rises for consumers. It's up to individuals to decide whether that benefits them or not. Yep inflation will start to rise and so will the interest rates, fix your mortgage now. Buy to let models will start to fail as well once the interest rates filter through, which should lead to lower houses prices at the bottom of the pile. it really is a spin of a wheel of chance, don't think anyone really knows whats going to happen over the next few years but my foreign holidays will certainly take a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 13, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2016 40 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: lasted a few weeks and was then resolved , I guess as it wasn't "Brexit " related it wasn't deemed Newsworthy at the time I'm pretty sure that many businesses from all kinds of sectors will try and use Brexit as an excuse to get more money from other businesses or from the Gov't or from wherever they can. And some will succeed, and when they succeed there's a likelihood that ultimately Joe Public will be footing the bill, whether via taxes, or via price rises. I think you're right that even without brexit the Marmite type thingy was going on with other stuff. I suspect Brexit will and already has, led to an increase in it happening though, because it's an additional "reason" (valid or not) people can call upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 45 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: it happens all the time couple of years back you couldn't buy Pepsimax etc in Tesco for a short while .. the 2 companies had a bit of a disagreement on how much they were prepared to pay for it / sell it for lasted a few weeks and was then resolved , I guess as it wasn't "Brexit " related it wasn't deemed Newsworthy at the time This morning's headlines in the Metro freaked me out for a second, when one said 'Marmite Wars' and the other said Will Young was struggling with his post-traumatic-stress. For a moment I thought the two were somehow connected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: There's absolutely no way to reunite the country at this point, whichever way they go, we're divided now. yeah I've gone through my address book and deleted everyone that voted remain , no way we can ever be friends again the jocks may get excited every time they watch the Aussie guy bastardisng history , but all this divided nation stuff is a bit melodramatic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Free financial advice. Find out where the wives and chums of ministers are moving their money? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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