The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[blandy]

55 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

is that in the same way that Jose Mourinho didn't talk to Man U until LVG left the job ?

No, I don't think so, because It's a negotiating starting position [at the moment] so probably different. In due course, it will probably change.

Oh and also because we have got almost no negotiators available in this country, so we're going to have to recruit them from abroad, to help with our "keep the foriners from stealing our jobs talks".

[StefanAVFC]

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

Oh and also because we have got almost no negotiators available in this country, so we're going to have to recruit them from abroad, to help with our "keep the foriners from stealing our jobs talks".

I love the irony

[tonyh29]

22 minutes ago, blandy said:

No, I don't think so, because It's a negotiating starting position [at the moment] so probably different. In due course, it will probably change.

Oh and also because we have got almost no negotiators available in this country, so we're going to have to recruit them from abroad, to help with our "keep the foriners from stealing our jobs talks".

is that fact or just twitter talk ?

 

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

is that fact or just twitter talk ?

 

Been in a few papers seemingly.

We haven't needed many for 40 years. Makes sense we've not got many.

[Awol]

9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

is that fact or just twitter talk ?

 

We've got about 40 as a consequence of outsourcing our trade policy to the EU - which has about 550 trade negotiators.

New Zealand have offered to lend us theirs if we need them while we skill up and drag a few people out of retirement.

 I'm slightly puzzled by this continuous narrative from remainers that we're in the midst of some sort of disaster. The Tories are having a leadership election with a fixed end point (2nd September) after which they'll put a team together and we get on with it.

Where's the disaster? 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Awol

[choffer]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

is that fact or just twitter talk ?

 

No idea what paper it's from but spotted this on twitter earlier:

 

Aware that this doesn't make it fact either.

Edited July 4, 2016 by choffer

[chrisp65]

47 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

is that fact or just twitter talk ?

 

There was some civil servant bod on Radio 4 a few afternoons ago stating that we had about 20 that could do the job today and another 20 or so that could probably be brought up to speed quite quickly but would need to be taken off other duties within other departments.

They estimated we'd need a few hundred and might actually need to 'borrow' whole teams from other countries. The irony of which was completely lost on the presenter who let that comment slip straight on by.

I'm not convinced borrowing a negotiating team and quickly training up a few of our own will put us in a very very strong position.

I'm beginning to think the whole thing hasn't been thought through beyond bus slogans and casual (not quite) racism.

I'm sure the USA will drop some staff from their TTIP team to give us a hand and Australia can send us their finest to help out getting things like steel sorted. Ahh yes, steel. I trust that's been saved by the top notch team we already have working on that. Javid, Crabb and Cairns. **** me, this could get grim.

[brommy]

The government were stupid enough not to plan for something that could and did happen so it doesn't surprise me that we need to spend some time gathering a suitable team.

I'm aware that Article 50 keeps us in the EU for up to 2 years from when it has been submitted but, other than 'being urged', is there an actual time limit for submitting Article 50? What's to stop us spending a year or so gathering our team together before submitting and therefore gaining the full 2 years to negotiate a good deal for us?

[MakemineVanilla]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

There was some civil servant bod on Radio 4 a few afternoons ago stating that we had about 20 that could do the job today and another 20 or so that could probably be brought up to speed quite quickly but would need to be taken off other duties within other departments.

They estimated we'd need a few hundred and might actually need to 'borrow' whole teams from other countries. The irony of which was completely lost on the presenter who let that comment slip straight on by.

I'm not convinced borrowing a negotiating team and quickly training up a few of our own will put us in a very very strong position.

I'm beginning to think the whole thing hasn't been thought through beyond bus slogans and casual (not quite) racism.

I'm sure the USA will drop some staff from their TTIP team to give us a hand and Australia can send us their finest to help out getting things like steel sorted. Ahh yes, steel. I trust that's been saved by the top notch team we already have working on that. Javid, Crabb and Cairns. **** me, this could get grim.

But isn't that the fault of Cameron for preventing any sort of preparation because he thought it would advantage the Leave campaign, and would make it look like he expected to lose.

Cameron was the only person who had access to the resources which would allow us to have a plan now, and he just never thought he was going to lose.

He's the football manager who refused to practice penalties because he was sure his team would not need to take them.

[Nicho]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

We've got about 40 as a consequence of outsourcing our trade policy to the EU - which has about 550 trade negotiators.

New Zealand have offered to lend us theirs if we need them while we skill up and drag a few people out of retirement.

 I'm slightly puzzled by this continuous narrative from remainers that we're in the midst of some sort of disaster. The Tories are having a leadership election with a fixed end point (2nd September) after which they'll put a team together and we get on with it.

Where's the disaster? 

Tories still being in charge is pretty horrible 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Nicho

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Awol said:

Also there's bugger all chance of a GE before the UK has exited the EU. None.

I don't think you can say that. It might be a small chance, but it's definitely not 'none'. 

[HanoiVillan]

8 minutes ago, brommy said:

The government were stupid enough not to plan for something that could and did happen so it doesn't surprise me that we need to spend some time gathering a suitable team.

I'm aware that Article 50 keeps us in the EU for up to 2 years from when it has been submitted but, other than 'being urged', is there an actual time limit for submitting Article 50? What's to stop us spending a year or so gathering our team together before submitting and therefore gaining the full 2 years to negotiate a good deal for us?

It appears that there is no time limit on invoking Article 50, and no way for the EU to pressure us into doing so except sounding increasingly exasperated about it. 

[The_Rev]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

 I'm slightly puzzled by this continuous narrative from remainers that we're in the midst of some sort of disaster. The Tories are having a leadership election with a fixed end point (2nd September) after which they'll put a team together and we get on with it.

Where's the disaster? 

People voting exit because they want to "take back control" yet we now have a situation where in two months time the country will be run by an unelected Prime Minister.  It's death by a thousand cuts, isn't it?

[Chindie]

9 minutes ago, brommy said:

The government were stupid enough not to plan for something that could and did happen so it doesn't surprise me that we need to spend some time gathering a suitable team.

I'm aware that Article 50 keeps us in the EU for up to 2 years from when it has been submitted but, other than 'being urged', is there an actual time limit for submitting Article 50? What's to stop us spending a year or so gathering our team together before submitting and therefore gaining the full 2 years to negotiate a good deal for us?

Nothing stops us waiting (although if we really took the piss the EU would move to boot us in some way).

Apart from the fact that the uncertainty is harming both us and the people we will need to negotiate with after the fact. Bearing in mind we're already not the favourite friend of the EU, it's probably not a good idea to unnecessarily stoke their ire when we're going to be asking for favours sooner or later.

[StefanAVFC]

12 minutes ago, brommy said:

The government were stupid enough not to plan for something that could and did happen so it doesn't surprise me that we need to spend some time gathering a suitable team.

I'm aware that Article 50 keeps us in the EU for up to 2 years from when it has been submitted but, other than 'being urged', is there an actual time limit for submitting Article 50? What's to stop us spending a year or so gathering our team together before submitting and therefore gaining the full 2 years to negotiate a good deal for us?

That's fine, but we're affecting the EU by digging our heels in. And they won't be happy being kept in total Limbo.

[HanoiVillan]

If the EU doesn't want Brexit - and they don't seem to - then they need to start viewing us not invoking Article 50 as a benefit, not a drawback. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

I'm slightly puzzled by this continuous narrative from remainers that we're in the midst of some sort of disaster. The Tories are having a leadership election with a fixed end point (2nd September) after which they'll put a team together and we get on with it.

Where's the disaster? 

Disaster is probably OTT, but it's had and having negative impacts in many areas and will continue to do so. The little things like people being worse off (due to the fall in the pound) in terms of shopping prices for imported goods, fuel etc.

There's a lot of orders/contracts/investment that was put on hold while all the referendum was going on. Because the result was "out" a part of that will not now happen. We're seeing that here at work. The construction industry has been having a referendum induced 'mare.

Area where we are strong and good and world leaders - science, R&D, research etc. they get a fair chunk of funding from the EU - it'll be lost, and parts of the country that get plenty of EU funding now are going to be cacking it.

The last point of course is that right wing tories will be in charge, emboldened by the anti immigration message and they are highly likely to direct proceeds towards their mates, rather than towards fishermen, farmers, scientists and engineers.

There's still not a soul who has identified from the Leave side, a clear, credible plan or idea of what Out actually looks like. If find this utterly incredible. Almost all the ones rabbiting on about milk and honey and 350 million for the NHS a week or so ago have completely gone into hiding. Cameron's done a runner, BoJo's done a runner, Farage has quit, IDS has said they didn't actually mean it. Labour have decided to see if they dig even deeper into their hole of despond. Turns out Leadsom is something of a recent convert to the Out camp, having previously been strongly in favour of staying because of all the economics - so she's basically done a Boris, too.

It seems that most of our government system is either hiding , deciding well we know it's stupid but we're going to do it anyway, or so zealously intent on not being in the EU that they'll say, do or stab anything and anyone in order to get their shiny precious.

Having a p9olitical system that is utterly broken and run by words removed is a disaster in itself.

 

 

[Chindie]

You also have to bear in mind that, besides there being a decision to Leave which has caused various financial jitters, nothing's actually changed yet.

The disaster might only be in its prelude right now. Perhaps the main event waits for the months to come were Article 50 is enacted and we start to see what happens post EU. Maybe it even waits until the move is done and we're out. Maybe it doesn't happen at all (although I'd be astonished if a Leave GB is better off).

Right now it's uncertainty causing risk aversion and slight panic. In 2 years we might be staring at a very different kettle of fish.

[limpid]

4 hours ago, Awol said:

He is continuing as a UKIP MEP and leading the group in the EU Parliament until UK leaves. He's definitely not joining another party!

I don't see that as a problem. MPs have changed party before while serving. I'm sure MEPs can too. You vote for the person, not the party. If he's stated that he's staying with UKIP then that's probably just a mistake.

[blandy]