The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Kingman]

12 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

You obviously missed the sarcasm.

Nope just like this bull shit i couldn't give a flying **** pal, I do find the reactions OTT though to be honest. 

You, me or even the folk that run the country have absolutely no idea if its good, bad or will simply stagnate. 

Shortly ill be driving my German car back from an Irish pub where i watched Ireland V's France having a Belgian beer, Ill be grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese takeaway on the way back, to then sit on my Swedish sofa and watch Germany v's Slovakia on a Japanese TV. 

Its gonna take one monumental cataclysmic **** up for me to stop doing that in the near future. 

PS, Change pal for mate if its classed as passive aggressive in the new 2016 

[StefanAVFC]

We don't know but the level of open xenophobia/racism has clearly increased. It can't be disputed. And that's a result of this vote.

[StefanAVFC]

Completely shocking and depressing.

[limpid]

Once Boris / Gove / May(?) is made PM, I wonder if they'll delay acting on Article 50. It seems likely that to actually serve notice will finish their political career.

Once Article 50 is activated, there needs to be a huge increase in the size of the civil service (the un-elected bits of government that people don't like). We need to re-issue passports, create visas and grant them retrospectively to foreign workers already here. The paperwork for ex-pats to be able to stay in the countries they are in needs to be formalised. The trade negotiations for deals across the world will start. A tiny piece of work is drawing up the new immigration policy - if there is any time for this. A good chunk of the money we are currently giving the EU will go to expand the civil service to pay for all the people that'll be needed for this work while the new government is busy with the increased day to day business for all the new and amended laws we have to enact before we exit. I hope no-one is expecting much of the money to be used to pay for the things currently subsidised by the EU or to help the NHS. You can't spend it twice.

As the leave campaign have already said, exit will have almost no effect on immigration. There will be many "unfortunate incidents" related to this. I can only see two alternatives for the next leader. Embrace the right wing in toto and whip up the xenophobia or retire and take away the dreams of the leavers. Not much of a choice.

I can see the next PM delaying this decision until the next GE. The uncertainty is likely to affect everything negatively. Cameron stitched them up big time by resigning without starting the Article 50 process.

[ferguson1]

14 minutes ago, Rodders said:

The overnight change in tone has been frightening. My mixed race partner has had no comments directed at her since living in Cardiff... until yesterday. **** charming. 

Sorry to hear this has happened mate and really hope your partner or you as a couple hear nothing again along those lines. Unfortunately, we have cretins/morons in our society, but for every one of those idiots, there are good people.  When in public, I spend most of time shaking my head at some of the things you hear, but it takes a better and stronger person not to react, however hard.  UTV. 

[Rodders]

Tbf, I know it's still a vastly tiny minority of Leave supporters etc but just the freedom the more closeted types now feel they have worries me a tad. It was water off a ducks back to her fortunately but other people are in for a rude shock.

[sharkyvilla]

28 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Completely shocking and depressing.

Although it possibly didn't help that when Faisal was interviewing David Cameron he spent the whole time interrupting and talking over him, and Gove too.  I don't see how that made it any easier for people to make a proper judgment, and I wonder how many people changed channel or got put off by the whole thing early on.

[RimmyJimmer]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

On the other hand, the vote does seem to have led to real outbursts of actual racism on the street:

Nobody is saying racism and xenophobia are the only reasons people voted Leave, but pretending that those emotions were irrelevant is just an exercise in ignoring reality. 

Unfortunately these type of people have, and will continue, to exist. If the vote had gone the other way, these idiots would still have been on the streets spouting their nonsense and the press would have lapped it up.

What has really, really annoyed me is that I, (and along with MILLIONS of others) have been thrown in the same box as these brainless idiots and labelled a racist...and continually so.

This is from people who apparently are now more intelligent than me...the same people who say labelling all people from a different race/culture/lifestyle should not be tolerated!

Abu Hamza is not representative of 'all muslims'

Racist dickhead on street is not representative of 'all leave voters'

 

Oh and by the way, I know several brainless idiots who didnt even listen to any of the debate and voted 'remain' just through apathy and an 'im alright jack' attitude. You lot are all the same, sitting in your 3 bed semis, going to your cosy little job without a thought of the hard working asians/eastern european/white british poor people, having to work zero hour contracts because of your fat cat mates in brussels.

 

Do you get where I'm coming from? I haven't banded all of 'you lot' together and started slinging personal insults, which has sadly been the case on here since friday. 

Yes, its disgusting what some of these racist bar stewards are spouting.....and so is a lot of what the 'remainers' are accusing 'us lot' of

 

[sharkyvilla]

6 minutes ago, RimmyJimmer said:

Unfortunately these type of people have, and will continue, to exist. If the vote had gone the other way, these idiots would still have been on the streets spouting their nonsense and the press would have lapped it up.

What has really, really annoyed me is that I, (and along with MILLIONS of others) have been thrown in the same box as these brainless idiots and labelled a racist...and continually so.

This is from people who apparently are now more intelligent than me...the same people who say labelling all people from a different race/culture/lifestyle should not be tolerated!

Abu Hamza is not representative of 'all muslims'

Racist dickhead on street is not representative of 'all leave voters'

 

Oh and by the way, I know several brainless idiots who didnt even listen to any of the debate and voted 'remain' just through apathy and an 'im alright jack' attitude. You lot are all the same, sitting in your 3 bed semis, going to your cosy little job without a thought of the hard working asians/eastern european/white british poor people, having to work zero hour contracts because of your fat cat mates in brussels.

 

Do you get where I'm coming from? I haven't banded all of 'you lot' together and started slinging personal insults, which has sadly been the case on here since friday. 

Yes, its disgusting what some of these racist bar stewards are spouting.....and so is a lot of what the 'remainers' are accusing 'us lot' of

 

To be fair I think everyone has acknowledged that not everyone who voted out is racist.  I think what we can't understand is why the more sensible people would vote the same way when there is no plan whatsoever as to what we do now, as that senior Tory leave campaigner seems to have admitted.  

[Awol]

I read earlier that Cameron gave explicit instructions that civil servants could "think" about Brexit scenarios but couldn't write anything down.  That was for fear of it getting out and assisting the Leave camp.

I'm incredulous that the country has just voted on its most important decision in 45 years, and the government didn't plan for one of only two possible outcomes - and the other one was things staying exactly as they are! 

It's a catastrophic failure of responsibility & governance on so many levels, it literally shouldn't have been possible in a modern democratic country. Leave couldn't do detailed planning because they were deliberately denied access to government resources.

Dave & George will go down in history for the calculated vandalism of their Offices & their country, in fits of malicious pique. I don't have the words to express my contempt for either of them.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Awol said:

I read earlier that Cameron gave explicit instructions that civil servants could "think" about Brexit scenarios but couldn't write anything down.  That was for fear of it getting out and assisting the Leave camp.

I'm incredulous that the country has just voted on its most important decision in 45 years, and the government didn't plan for one of only two possible outcomes - and the other one was things staying exactly as they are! 

It's a catastrophic failure of responsibility & governance on so many levels, it literally shouldn't have been possible in a modern democratic country. Leave couldn't do detailed planning because they were deliberately denied access to government resources.

Dave & George will go down in history for the calculated vandalism of their Offices & their country, in fits of malicious pique. I don't have the words to express my contempt for either of them.

 

 

At least there's one feeling we share!

[limpid]

2 minutes ago, Awol said:

It's a catastrophic failure of responsibility & governance on so many levels, it literally shouldn't have been possible in a modern democratic country. Leave couldn't do detailed planning because they were deliberately denied access to government resources.

Agreed. However, they don't appear to have even done "back of an envelope" planning.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, Awol said:

Dave & George will go down in history for the calculated vandalism of their Offices & their country, in fits of malicious pique. I don't have the words to express my contempt for either of them

You're right. It was always going to be the case that Osborne and Cameron would come a cropper due to their own massively flawed method of operating - always trying to be clever in terms of trying to rig things or set them up to disadvantage opponents, rather than trying to actually improve the country. That they've been found out on this issue of all issues just demonstrates the staggering incompetence, negligence and arrogance of them.

And frankly you can add in Gove and Johnson et al to the same shameful corner. They all did what they did for either personal reasons - ambition, or for party reasons over the interests of the nation, or for both.

Contemptible vermin.

[villakram]

8 minutes ago, Awol said:

I read earlier that Cameron gave explicit instructions that civil servants could "think" about Brexit scenarios but couldn't write anything down.  That was for fear of it getting out and assisting the Leave camp.

I'm incredulous that the country has just voted on its most important decision in 45 years, and the government didn't plan for one of only two possible outcomes - and the other one was things staying exactly as they are! 

It's a catastrophic failure of responsibility & governance on so many levels, it literally shouldn't have been possible in a modern democratic country. Leave couldn't do detailed planning because they were deliberately denied access to government resources.

Dave & George will go down in history for the calculated vandalism of their Offices & their country, in fits of malicious pique. I don't have the words to express my contempt for either of them.

 

 

It's quite obviously a catastrophic decision not to make plans for the result of a non-binding vote.

[Pilchard]

52 minutes ago, limpid said:

I can see the next PM delaying this decision until the next GE. The uncertainty is likely to affect everything negatively. Cameron stitched them up big time by resigning without starting the Article 50 process.

The whole Brexit thing has been playing on my mind since Friday. I was thinking about Cameron earlier - I actually think what he did was rather clever. He didn't want to be a part of it, so walked. But what it also means is that now we've got three months at the earliest until Article 50 is invoked. The rabid dicks like Farage can't foam at the mouth demanding it's done NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT I WANT IT because in essence, we don't have a PM, and it gives three months a competent plan to be put together (yes, I know this is politicians we're talking about), and put towards a case where we can still keep the important parts of the EU that we need to be economically sound, keep the big businesses still here - single market, money 'passport' etc - which was the kind of future Boris tended to waffle on about.

The 'Little Englander' section of the Out vote wouldn't be happy at the lack of a 'Night of Broken Glass', I don't think that would be too bad an outcome. 

I see the Lib Dems are saying they'll block an exit which seems to be both a very brave, and very stupid thing to be saying.

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, limpid said:

Agreed. However, they don't appear to have even done "back of an envelope" planning.

Yes.

The issue isn't just that they haven't done detailed planning on the economy or whatever - I can believe Cameron made that as hard as possible - but they hadn't even done any political planning either. The messaging has been hopeless. 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, Pilchard said:

The whole Brexit thing has been playing on my mind since Friday. I was thinking about Cameron earlier - I actually think what he did was rather clever. He didn't want to be a part of it, so walked.

Fair comment. Personally on Cameron I think it's a case of having lied - "if we vote leave I will immediately trigger article 50" was what he said in the campaign. He was lying, obviously. It seems like a fit of pique, basically. It will have the advantages you outline, and for that I suppose we should be grateful. Having blundered massively, he's just downed tools and walked away, pretty much.

[Pilchard]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

Fair comment. Personally on Cameron I think it's a case of having lied - "if we vote leave I will immediately trigger article 50" was what he said in the campaign. He was lying, obviously. It seems like a fit of pique, basically. It will have the advantages you outline, and for that I suppose we should be grateful. Having blundered massively, he's just downed tools and walked away, pretty much.

I'm no Cameron fan. But having said that, perhaps he knew that if he did trigger Article 50 the shitstorm approaching would be huge. And if he didn't he'd be called out on it and (as well as having lost such an important vote) walked. 

It amazes me that despite all this, it's still the Labour Party who have managed self destruct. 

[HanoiVillan]

Let's not forget that the Leave campaign themselves didn't want him to immediately invoke Article 50, or at least that's what they said. 'There's no rush' said Boris. 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Let's not forget that the Leave campaign themselves didn't want him to immediately invoke Article 50, or at least that's what they said. 'There's no rush' said Boris. 

Half of them don't really want to leave at all. They just like the idea of leaving. Kind of like the leave voters who said their vote was a protest vote, because they though Remain would win.