The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[chrisp65]

28 minutes ago, bickster said:

I actually wonder how many of them are still with us

There’s no way all of them had dual French citizenship.

[bickster]

talking of citizenship....

Quote

Norwegian Roxy Music model Kari-Ann Moller fights to stay in UK after Brexit
Husband, Chris Jagger, uses 1972 album cover to support settlement application for Moller, who has lived in UK for 74 years

As a result of Brexit, Norwegians living in the UK were required to apply to the EU settlement scheme – despite Norway not being a member state – to remain living in Britain.

But after former model turned yoga teacher Kari-Ann Moller was stopped by British immigration officials earlier this year and told she was not allowed to remain because of her Norwegian passport, her husband, Chris Jagger – brother of Rolling Stone Sir Mick – got involved.

Writing in the Times, he said he had uploaded a picture of Roxy Music’s 1972 album – on which she appears, dressed in satin frills, on the cover – to support his wife, who has lived in the UK for 74 years, in her application.

“Sir, My wife, Kari-Ann, who is Norwegian, has lived in the UK for 74 years but is now being asked to apply to the EU settlement scheme, so to support her application I have uploaded a picture of Roxy Music’s 1972 debut album, Roxy Music, as she is featured on the cover,” he wrote.

“I wonder if this is admissible evidence? Chris Jagger, Mudgley, Somerset.”

Usually acceptable documents include bank statements, council tax bills, electricity bills and GP appointment cards.

As well as appearing on Roxy Music’s debut album, Moller, who is now known as Jagger, also featured on the cover of Mott the Hoople’s 1974 album The Hoople and briefly in the 1967 film Casino Royale.

She told the newspaper she had been asked to supply “further information” to support her claim.

“The whole thing is an absolute nightmare,” she told the Times. “There is a risk that I may not be able to come back in if I go away. It is crazy because I don’t even speak Norwegian.”

Jagger, who was born in Arendal, in south-east Norway, in 1947, to a Norwegian airman and a British mother who took her to live in Cornwall. When she was 17 she urgently needed a passport to go on a modelling assignment in New York for Mary Quant and found the fastest way to do so was to get a temporary passport from the Norwegian embassy before later getting a full passport.[...]

Guardian

English mother, lived here 74 years, married to an English man for 44 years...

The evidence is all in the public record you dimwits

[Marka Ragnos]

16 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I hope all the Brexiteers suffer the most. They all need to know there was consequences we all suffer for their stupidity. 

It's nonsense though to put the whole inflation blame as if it's solely down to Brexit. The primary cause for the UK having higher inflation than other G7 countries however is down to Brexit factors. 

The othe three factors are driving inflation here as much as elsewhere. 

It still amazes me that such a consequential question could be left up to a simple majority vote. The referendum law in the UK seems really bad -- and in general, very risky. Haven't previous referenda commanded much more clear outcomes? It seems like it bleeds away power from Parliament too much. 51% of voters have **** up the whole country.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[chrisp65]

4 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

It still amazes me that such a consequential question could be left up to a simple majority vote. The referendum law in the UK seems really bad -- and in general, very risky. Haven't previous referenda commanded much more clear outcomes? It seems like it bleeds away power from Parliament too much. 51% of voters have **** up the whole country.

Would it be more democratic if 40% could stop the will of 60%?

 

[sidcow]

Apparently this week's Question Time has an audience which is entirely made up of Brexit voters. The panel is mixed. 

Should be interesting. Apparently you can listen to it live on the BBC website at 20.00 on Thursday evening. 

[CVByrne]

19 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

It still amazes me that such a consequential question could be left up to a simple majority vote. The referendum law in the UK seems really bad -- and in general, very risky. Haven't previous referenda commanded much more clear outcomes? It seems like it bleeds away power from Parliament too much. 51% of voters have **** up the whole country.

It wasn't though, it was a calculated gamble by David Cameron to win an internal struggle in the Tory party. When he lost the Tory party battled with itself to decide how it was going to end. All safe because the most unelectable party leader in the history of the state in Jeremy Corbyn meant there was no alternative to stop them

A conversation for another thread perhaps 

Edited June 22, 2023 by CVByrne

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Apparently this week's Question Time has an audience which is entirely made up of Brexit voters. The panel is mixed. 

Should be interesting. Apparently you can listen to it live on the BBC website at 20.00 on Thursday evening. 

As I posted yesterday, the Tories aren’t putting anyone up for the panel… what does that say. The Tories on the anniversary of their big achievement, aren’t send an MP to a panel on QT where the audience is made up entirely of people who voted for their big achievement.

They know it'll be an absolute shit show and they are employing their latest tactic to combat it… running away.

[Xela]

33 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Apparently this week's Question Time has an audience which is entirely made up of Brexit voters. The panel is mixed. 

Should be interesting. Apparently you can listen to it live on the BBC website at 20.00 on Thursday evening. 

no need to watch QT ever again after this;

 

[Mozzavfc]

13 hours ago, sidcow said:

Apparently this week's Question Time has an audience which is entirely made up of Brexit voters. The panel is mixed. 

Should be interesting. Apparently you can listen to it live on the BBC website at 20.00 on Thursday evening. 

Managed about 15 minutes before I had to turn it off for my own sanity. No wonder we're in such a mess

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Mozzavfc said:

Managed about 15 minutes before I had to turn it off for my own sanity. No wonder we're in such a mess

Yep.  I could not believe only 20% had changed their mind.  Although 20% would easily swing it back firmly to remain.

My personal favourite was the old lady who voted out because our builders have all health and safety rules to work to when going up on a roof but whenever she went to Spain or Germany  (I assume she spent all her frequent holidays to Spain and Germany looking at building sites) non of them were bothering with the Health and Safety she was so intimately familiar with.

I'm with her on this, I think more builders should work on roofs without health and safety and I for one am glad they are now free to do so.

All the harm done to the country was well worth a few dead builders.

The Brexit panel members were noted for being shouty and clearly lying.  When not shouting their main strategy was to go for the "not proper Brexit" line.  One said current Brexit didn't add complexity to trade despite one audience member saying his small business was really struggling with the added complexity.  Then reinforcing that full Brexit which would no doubt add further complexity AND tariffs on top would be no problem.

So much bullshit from those charlatans.  One saying HE never promised a USA trade deal.  Both pointing to the trade deals we had signed but no questioning them og if these were actually better than what we had as part of the EU anyway.

My second favourite audience member was the one who stated that the "the first thing migrants do when they get here is go straight down the benefits office.  I've seen them"

I was shocked no one questioned him on this.  Which benefits office exactly? What street is it on?  Why were you hanging about outside there watching who was going in presumable for hours or days?  How do you know those people were migrants?  How do you know they had literally just got here?

Just typical man in the pub told me comments badged up with "I've seen it"   Absolute bollocks have you seen it but now it's out there on national television reinforcing the opinions.

 

The other common theme from the audience was they voted out because they wanted out sovereignty back.  Again no one asked what they meant by this and  how anything has changed relating to our sovereignty since.  This seemed to be the absolute key point for many.  No one understands or knows what they mean, just another slogan.

Edited June 23, 2023 by sidcow

[VILLAMARV]

I find it genuinely hard to believe that serious people still watch this drivel.

[mjmooney]

I never watch it, as it makes me too angry. I hope someone asked when the £350M a week to the NHS was going to appear. That red bus claim was, for me, the decisive lie that swung it. 

[blandy]

14 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yep.  I could not believe only 20% had changed their mind.

It would be interesting to hear from the VTers who’ve changed their minds, if there are any. This current thread was started because the previous one had a time limited poll attached. The poll shows who was for leaving and remaining and plenty still actively post.

Any takers?

[sidcow]

16 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I never watch it, as it makes me too angry. I hope someone asked when the £350M a week to the NHS was going to appear. That red bus claim was, for me, the decisive lie that swung it. 

That was mentioned.  Covid and war in Ukraine  sucked it up plus the fact we haven't got Brexit done properly.  The brexiteers were no fans of Boris.

[sidcow]

I think the one thing that summarises Brexit is that pretty much NOTHING which was promised by Brexiteers has come to pass.  Nothing is better for anyone.  They can blame Covid and Ukraine and not proper Brexit (there is always an excuse isn't there) but it's delivered on none of the promises.

Conversely pretty much EVERYTHING that remoaners and Project Fear said would happen has come to pass.  Plus a shit load more no one from either side  could have envisioned has happened.

Edited June 23, 2023 by sidcow

[Hobsons Choice]

45 minutes ago, blandy said:

It would be interesting to hear from the VTers who’ve changed their minds, if there are any. This current thread was started because the previous one had a time limited poll attached. The poll shows who was for leaving and remaining and plenty still actively post.

Any takers?

Me? Nope. Nope Nopity Nope. 

[Seat68]

I was a bit confused by some of the answers in that thread, can you answer No to an "or" question?

[sidcow]

19 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Me? Nope. Nope Nopity Nope. 

Just curious as to why.  What's now better?

What were your hopes and dreams for Brexit and which are you enjoying following it?

[sidcow]

18 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

I was a bit confused by some of the answers in that thread, can you answer No to an "or" question?

Bit like most Brexiteers.  Didn't actually read the small print or understand what was being asked of them.

[sidcow]

Reading that back, as ever @mjmooney pretty much hit the nail on the head back in the day:

 

This whole referendum really boils my piss. 

This is probably the most complex, delicately balanced political decision in this country's recent history. The result will have momentous consequences, one way or the other. It should not, repeat NOT, be decided as if it were the **** ing X Factor. 

Look, I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent, well educated bloke. I take an interest in politics. I have a degree in International History and Politics, FFS! And you know what? I don't feel I understand the issue well enough to cast a yes/no vote on it. So what chance have the average Joe and Jane got? This is EXACTLY the sort of decision that needs to be taken by our elected representatives. It's what we pay them to do. It doesn't split on party lines, so it could even be done by a cross bench team, acting on the advice of the very best economists they can come up with. 

But no. This HUGE decision is going to be made by a mass of undereducated, ill informed and confused punters, who WILL be acting on exactly the sort of emotive and bigoted gut feelings parodied by Pompey on page one of this thread. 

It scares me shitless.