The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

8 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

This is turning out to be a far bigger shambles than most of us would have envisaged.

Agreed,  I never thought it would go like this.  This is the nightmare where the people in charge don't really seem to give a dam how it goes.  That was unexpected actually as the Tories always at least give it a good go even if they almost always fail.  They have always tried to come across like they have a clue,,  not this time.  Out of their league and have been found out for what they are,  useless.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Just read something funny in the Telegraph, 

David Davies = "Jay" from the Inbetweeners in a suit.

Research Documents and analysis on Brexit = Caravan park disco where there is Clunge and loads of it.

[snowychap]

I found myself reading that comment in a harsh NI accent.

[lapal_fan]

What are Leslie Knope and Ron Swanson up to these days? 

[ml1dch]

16 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I found myself reading that comment in a harsh NI accent.

Surely there's no problem anymore.

Davis said in the House of Commons yesterday that anything that happens to Northern Ireland happens to the rest of the UK as well. So nothing that the DUP need to worry about. Regulatory alignment for everyone involved.

Unless of course David Davis has a spectacular lack of  awareness about what is actually happening, and misled the Commons once again.

But I'm sure that can't be it.

[limpid]

Quote

 

In the event of a 2nd EU Referendum would the result be different?

Please choose the answer you agree with, or the one which makes the better argument.

To have your voice heard click the logo below before 11.00pm 8^th December 2017

 

 

 

A Voice not just a Vote

There are 36 pairs – ideally just answer 15

Answer more if you like, Stop and start as often as you like.

All answers are strictly anonymous.

 

Disclaimer: I have some involvement in the company providing the "voting" platform.

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Just read something funny in the Telegraph, 

David Davies = "Jay" from the Inbetweeners in a suit.

Research Documents and analysis on Brexit = Caravan park disco where there is Clunge and loads of it.

Brexit? 

 

 

[mjmooney]

17 minutes ago, limpid said:

Disclaimer: I have some involvement in the company providing the "voting" platform.

What a bizarre questionnaire. I'll wager that most respondents become exasperated and give up before halfway. 

[limpid]

25 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

What a bizarre questionnaire. I'll wager that most respondents become exasperated and give up before halfway. 

Like my post says, you're only supposed to do 15 out of 36. After that you are down to really fine differences.

[Lichfield Dean]

46 minutes ago, limpid said:

Disclaimer: I have some involvement in the company providing the "voting" platform.

Nice system there - I once worked on something similar many years ago that determined eligibility to benefits via a series of modelled questions.

I would say that I found it very very hard to decide between some of those Brexit choices though, because they were often so disparate in their content. Almost ended up answering randomly at times when there was very little in common between the offered choices.

[Enda]

20 hours ago, tinker said:

We should offer to have another referendum  if the eu allow some restrictions  on eu nationals entering the country to use the nhs, social service or welfare and our citizens should have restrictions on using the eu's , that way no one looses face and we can all live happier ever after .....

These already exist.

The single market has free movement of workers, not of people. When you move to another EU country, you are allowed three months to find a job without the government bothering you. (You have no guaranteed right to social assistance in those first three months though.) After those three months,  if you become a burden on the welfare budget (i.e. unless you can support yourself) you do not have a guaranteed right to remain in that country.

[Enda]

20 hours ago, tinker said:

We should offer to have another referendum  if the eu allow some restrictions  on eu nationals entering the country to use the nhs, social service or welfare and our citizens should have restrictions on using the eu's , that way no one looses face and we can all live happier ever after .....

...so basically what you're suggesting is the UK just cancels Brexit.

[Enda]

Just now, Enda said:

...so basically what you're suggesting is the UK just cancels Brexit.

And I bet the EU will be just fine with re-admitting you as an equal member of the Union. That means you lose the rebate Thatcher negotiated though, which is worth about £5bn a year. Seems fair.

[tinker]

40 minutes ago, Enda said:

And I bet the EU will be just fine with re-admitting you as an equal member of the Union. That means you lose the rebate Thatcher negotiated though, which is worth about £5bn a year. Seems fair.

Is that what would happen? Both sides have plenty to lose and need to compromise.

Didn't Ireland have a few referedums  on leaving the EU? What changed the vote in their case, was it EU concessions? Or did the consequences of leaving the EU hit home? 

[ml1dch]

10 minutes ago, tinker said:

Didn't Ireland have a few referedums  on leaving the EU? What changed the vote in their case, was it EU concessions? Or did the consequences of leaving the EU hit home? 

Leaving the EU has never been given any serious thought in Ireland.

There was a referendum on whether to ratify the Lisbon treaty (any new treaty that changes Irish rights has to be put to a public referendum by law I believe).

From memory, there were certain issues with the treaty (such as Ireland losing a commissioner), so it was voted down

Those objections were addressed and the treaty amended. A new Government was then elected in Ireland on a promise to hold a new referendum. That one was held and passed.

I expect I might have missed a couple of the finer points (and any correction that Enda can give would be welcomed), but I'm pretty sure that's the gist.

Edited December 7, 2017 by ml1dch

[Enda]

That's the gist of it, yep. Ireland never had a referendum to leave. We had a referendum to ratify Lisbon, which was rejected for many reasons but mostly people didn't really trust it. People like my Dad will vote No unless he's convinced something is a good idea, and people like him weren't convinced. The vote was something like 45-55 with No winning. A year later, after a big information campaign actually explaining the facts of the matter it was put to the people again and passed something like 70-30.

I think the UK could learn a lesson from this tbh.

[choffer]

4 hours ago, limpid said:

Disclaimer: I have some involvement in the company providing the "voting" platform.

 

I completed it with only 4 warning points.

[Chindie]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

Is that what would happen? Both sides have plenty to lose and need to compromise.

Didn't Ireland have a few referedums  on leaving the EU? What changed the vote in their case, was it EU concessions? Or did the consequences of leaving the EU hit home? 

I would be very surprised if, in the exceptionally unlikely scenario that Brexit was cancelled, the EU would just let things go back as they were. If nothing else, this process has cost a shit load, what with the cost of the negotiations, directing resources and so on, and the impact on three European markets. Then you add in the fact the EU doesn't really like rebates and we get a pretty big one. And then consider that there are businesses in the EU looking at Brexit and seeing opportunities. I don't think that together would mean Brussels wipes its hands, smiles and says 'let's forget this ever happened'. I wouldn't.

You have to always consider that while yes, Brexit hurts all parities, it hurts the UK far harder than the EU. It's 27 versus 1. The 27 all take a knock, to one degree or another, the 1 takes 27 knocks. The EU doesn't need to compromise. The UK would like it to, sure. But at the end of the day it's the EU's club. We can say we don't like the rules all we want, but they don't have to change them, especially when the things we don't like are parts that are pillars of the organisation.

We lose the most in these negotiations, and anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

[tinker]

Yep we're doomed, unless another world event kicks brexit into touch, maybe Turkey and Greece will kick  off or Russia will invade the Ukraine or a volcano will explode plunging us into darkness or........

[snowychap]