Aston Villa Protest Group

[briny_ear]

You've no right to declare that.

Where were you when we were handing out flyers, putting 24 hours a day into building something that might actually make a **** difference?

Nowhere mate. Nowhere. That's where. 

That's easy emotive stuff to come out with but the reality is you have just effectively killed off OTDO74, whether you recognise that or not. That's all I'm saying.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

That's easy emotive stuff to come out with but the reality is you have just effectively killed off OTDO74, whether you recognise that or not. That's all I'm saying.

Even if you're correct, and your opinion is your prerogative, where will you be for the next protest group? 

Nowhere except waiting for them to make the first mistake so you can shoot them down with a cheap graphic. 

[YGabbana]

I am going to say nothing about the decision to postpone but it was nowhere near as simple as people think. 

To say you think the decision is wrong is obviously fine, but I find the indignant reactions of some very strange. With the notable exceptions of those who helped in many ways, when we needed help with stuff like handing out leaflets and other stuff, we were deafened by the silence here and elsewhere. Ironically many of those who were openly criticising and quite vociferously against the whole concept of OTDO74 in the first place, from various quarters (not just VT) are now saying we were wrong to postpone. Go figure to use an Americanism.....

The small team who have been involved with OTDO74 have gone beyond the call of duty, received a lot of personal flak over the last three weeks, worked incredible hours etc etc  and if the collective decision to postpone was wrong so be it, but personally, I will not accept ******* lectures from those who did **** all and were able but couldn't be bothered to get off their arses and help. A small number of people stuck their head above the parapet and at the very least there should just a tiny bit of recognition.

Bluntly some people who are now saying they are 'out' were never **** 'in'

You and a few others were organisers, fair enough.

But the movement itself is an entire fanbase movement which is what you wanted.

You've now killed that movement after just 1 protest because the club signed 2 board members. It makes us look silly and i doubt anyone will now back the movement again.

If there are 'reasons' for stopping the movement then list them. There should be no elitest attitude just because some did more than others. Collectively we are all part of the fanbase, some of us may not of been able to help and some maybe wanted to see how the first game went before deciding their stance. You had alot of support and alot momentum which has been killed by a naive decision imo.

May aswell even close the thread.

[Ingram85]

Bit harsh to lambast those who weren't there from day one? It's not an us vs them/I'm a better protester than you deal is it? I thought it was us vs the bad apples at avfc?

If you are trying to recruit people along the way this mentality has to change to attract them. That's how it snowballs. You can't blame people for reacting the way they have to the postponement. By giving abuse to then you have effectively stopped them from ever joining the cause. Yes it's not nice to receive criticism when you've worked so hard for something but by biting your tongue now and rebuilding again these people may have got back on board with the idea.

I've offered my help for the Chelsea game but if I'm not sure if there is a protest going on or not can I be blamed for making back up plans to see my family or will I be labeled fair weather for it? Will I be made to feel bad for not helping from the get go?

 

[YGabbana]

Bit harsh to lambast those who weren't there from day one? It's not an us vs them/I'm a better protester than you deal is it? I thought it was us vs the bad apples at avfc?

If you are trying to recruit people along the way this mentality has to change to attract them. That's how it snowballs. You can't blame people for reacting the way they have to the postponement. By giving abuse to then you have effectively stopped them from ever joining the cause. Yes it's not nice to receive criticism when you've worked so hard for something but by biting your tongue now and rebuilding again these people may have got back on board with the idea.

I've offered my help for the Chelsea game but if I'm not sure if there is a protest going on or not can I be blamed for making back up plans to see my family or will I be labeled fair weather for it? Will I be made to feel bad for not helping from the get go?

 

My thoughts exactly

[Sam3773]

The huge majority of posts I've read have thanked the group for their hard work in getting this set up.

We're very thankful, but don't throw that crap in our faces when our opinion differs with yours. The point people are trying to make is a group of 5/6 people protesting is laughable. A group of thousands without organisation is also laughable. You need both.

I don't think your decision to postpone has split the two necessary parts, but your reactions to people who disagree has. As already mentioned, people may not have handed out leaflets or promoted the walkout, but people you don't know bought tickets to walk out and told friends, etc.

You've sadly made this an 'us and them' and unfortunately that has killed this movement.

[/opinion]

[Kingman]

Collapsing Reality!

 

[Kingman]

Why do I still think a lot will walkout anyway regardless of a suggested pause?

Maybe even more than the Everton game now!!! 

5-4-3-2-1...

Edited March 13, 2016 by Kingman

[AVTuco]

Have a like for a good GIF Kingman. The girl takes it well on the chin. 

[Gary Thomas]

10 minutes ago, Kingman said:

Why do I still think a lot will walkout anyway regardless of a suggested pause?

Maybe even more than the Everton game now!!! 

5-4-3-2-1...

Be interesting to see what happens on 74, especially if we're getting thumped. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[markavfc40]

On 12/03/2016 at 11:09, Woodytom said:

The protest is supposed to be disappointment at the way the football club has been run, and it's been halted by the appointment of Brian little?? 

 

That was a tiny part of it. This was never a protest about beating the club up about what had happened in the past. That couldn't be changed. This is a protest group very much about pushing the club to make changes to ensure past mistakes aren't repeated and action taken to ensure a much brighter future.

I don't know if people did think this group was about something else. Reading some of the comments that seems very possible though.

These were the actions requested of the owner in the open letter sent to him:

1. To make a public statement indicating that you are once again motivated to sell the club at a price at which Aston Villa can be sold to a person, or persons, with the means and vision to restore this club to its rightful place. You must then follow through on this pledge.

2. Whilst a buyer is found we require you to make the necessary changes to ensure that Aston Villa is ran with the intention of winning football matches. That must include a guarantee from yourself to provide the necessary financial support to achieve this aim.

3. You must also ensure that people with the correct expertise and a proven track record are brought into the club to provide the tools for the Manager to succeed.

That is it. That simple. Three very simple measures in fact. No calling for him to sell the club for a pound. No calling for him to put a couple of hundred mill more in to the club.

Number three on the list has been met. Bernstein and Little have vast football experience and expertise. That third request was arguably the most important one on the list. Had we have had that level of expertise on the board since Lerner had been here I would be confident in saying that given the level of investment that has been put into the club we would not have found ourselves in anything like this position.

That was a big step from the club in the right direction in making these appointments. Met arguably the most important request on our list. Therefore to show we are not a protest group wallowing in what has gone on in the past, not a group set up to beat the club up about past decisions, but a protest group very much about the future we applauded them on this decision and as a show of fairness said we would pause the protests and give them the chance to meet the other requests in the coming days. We want this to be a two way thing with the club. We have made some reasonable requests and we want to show that as those requests are progressed as a group we will play fair.

What happens on the pitch between now and the end of the season is pretty much irrelevant. We are pretty much done. It is all about what happens off it. If I was to compare what we are trying to get the club to achieve off the pitch to an actual football game though I would say when this started we were 3-0 down and it was the 74th minute so we walked out, we have now just scored a goal to make it 3-1, we are still pushing up off our seats but we have paused and thought hang on, just maybe. The club now need to bang in another couple of goals quickly. Meet the rest of our simple requests for us to stay seated.

Of course all of the above doesn't mean fans can't still walk out on 74 minutes today. That was always a personal choice and still is obviously.

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by markavfc40

[Woodytom]

13 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Number three on the list has been met. Bernstein and Little have vast football experience and expertise.

The problem is though, most thought that Tom Fox was a good appointment at the time. 

Yes Berstein and little have the relevant experience but where is the guarantee that they are going to succeed. There is none obviously.

So let's just play devils advocate... a year down the line, little and bernstein have failed miserably in our eyes? Do we blame Lerner? We have kind of made our stance by postponing the protest. So should it ever come down to whinging about little/bernstein, it's going to be massively contradictory.

The problem with your requests is that it will take time to fully realise whether they have been put into action successfully or not. 

Also, I doubt Lerner employed fox and Co thinking, well they haven't got the relevant experience. He will think that he's already done number 3 previously. Yes in hindsight, its been a mistake. But that's it, a mistake. Not a plot to hire inexperienced members of staff on purpose.

Right now we don't have the benefit of hindsight with regards little and bernstein, so the postponement, albeit temporary seems a little bit rash.

Not that I agree the protest is a good idea in the first place anyway. 

[Duck]

22 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

These were the actions requested of the owner in the open letter sent to him:

1. To make a public statement indicating that you are once again motivated to sell the club at a price at which Aston Villa can be sold to a person, or persons, with the means and vision to restore this club to its rightful place. You must then follow through on this pledge.

2. Whilst a buyer is found we require you to make the necessary changes to ensure that Aston Villa is ran with the intention of winning football matches. That must include a guarantee from yourself to provide the necessary financial support to achieve this aim.

3. You must also ensure that people with the correct expertise and a proven track record are brought into the club to provide the tools for the Manager to succeed.

That is it. That simple.

Sorry mark, this isn't a jibe at you or anything. But looking at it, I don't think any of these conditions have actually been met.

Sure they've taken on Bernstein and little, but how much input will they actually have? Can they actually help the club to succeed?

the anger about the called off protest is largely disappointment. The protest had the board by the proverbials and let them off when it was gathering steam.

And now thanks to the reactions against those who said it was a poor decision to call it off, they've killed off any future protests, potentially even protests away from OTDO74. All the good work the organisers and others who had volunteered to the cause had done is now undone by the fallout. 

Personally I think that's the worst part of this. Something that united us has now caused division and apathy.

...and Lerner escapes and saves face.

[Hanky]

I'd imagine there will still be chanting directed at Lerner when it inevitably all goes tits up on the pitch this afternoon.

[markavfc40]

6 minutes ago, Duck said:

Sorry mark, this isn't a jibe at you or anything. But looking at it, I don't think any of these conditions have actually been met.

Sure they've taken on Bernstein and little, but how much input will they actually have? Can they actually help the club to succeed?

 

The proof will be in the eating on that. If we protested until any actions showed progress on the pitch we'd be protesting until a number of games into next season I guess

Brian Little said this on Friday:

"I'm delighted to have been invited to assist the Board"

"I've held various roles at the football club over a 46 year period and I know my experience and love for the Club will help shape a positive future for Aston Villa."

He seems to believe, I assume from discussions he has held, that he will have enough input and influence to shape a positive future for the club.

Brian Little has never struck me as a man who will simply come into a club to tow the line or be used as a means to appease supporters. He has a good legacy here. Like I say though the proof will be in the eating but for me this has to be a step in the right direction.

[Stevo985]

The biggest mistake the organisers have made is thinking the appointment of little and Bernstein has anything to do with the protest.

If the club had said those appointments were a result of the protest then I would understand the pause. The club might then make the connection of "oh look, if we do something good they don't protest".

They won't do that. The club will barely have acknowledged the protest in the first place and they certainly won't make the connection you're hoping for. There has been no gesture from the club. It's a coincidence.

Again, I admire all the work put into this by the organisers, but I find the lambasting of those giving their opinion now because they didn't help hand out flyers or whatever quite embarrassing. And more reason why you'll struggle to gain support for the next protest after calling off this one.

[maqroll]

Yep, Little and Bernstein will be smart enough to separate one from the other. The organizers  should not have canceled this, it had a good chance of turning into something memorable. A voice of the fans had a little bit of traction, but now they've backed off, which is too bad.

[Rob182]

If you guys really wanted to, you could still change the decision again and announce via Twitter that after a large section of the fanbase disagreed with the decision to pause, you've decided to continue with the 74th minute walkout (or words to that effect + numerous retweets for coverage).

It's not too late to change the decision again.

Who cares if you're appearing to have 'flip flopped'. It's not like a Fabian Delph flip-flop, that's for sure!

I imagine if you decided to continue with the walkout, a small minority would think 'indecisive buggers [insert rolly eyes smiley]', but the vast majority would see it as the right move and congratulate you on taking the fan feedback as intended.

[markavfc40]

31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

The biggest mistake the organisers have made is thinking the appointment of little and Bernstein has anything to do with the protest.

.

Ben I couldn't personally give two monkeys if the appointments are a reaction to the protests. This is all about the club doing the right thing and however that comes about is irrelevant. I don't have an ego so don't instantly believe when hearing this news the club have listened to us.

The club has lacked experienced football nous on the board pretty much since Lerner arrived. That has been rectified. Big tick for me.

Now as a group we would like to see the two other things on the list of actions addressed. Whether that be because of us protesting for them or by sheer coincidence it doesn't really matter. In fact it doesn't matter at all.

I haven't been on this thread since early yesterday and haven't been through it with a fine tooth comb this morning but what I would say in defence of the group is that emotions were running high yesterday and last night. Been a lot of shit thrown at all of us. Not just in reaction to this postponement but to protesting in the first place including very personal face to face abuse for a number of us including towards our family members. There are always angry people it seems but having said that it comes with the territory and when you stick your head above the trenches you are fair game to be shot down. The people involved in this are good people though and only trying to do what they felt was right and anything we try to do is in the best interests of the club. That doesn't make anything we have done right by the way but it is done with the best of intentions.

Edited March 13, 2016 by markavfc40

[onmeedson]

Well done to all the guys actually doing the work on behalf of our club, people are expecting a revolution and the total removal of lerner and his co horts. This was never the plan and the effort shown by a few should not be dismissed as game over, this is a struggle not a quick fix and could take a very long time. If you do not shout for help no one will hear so thanks for shouting and please keep on shouting.