Aston Villa Protest Group

[sne]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

i find it hard to understand that someone would buy a ticket, just to protest....and when a protest is called off (presumably for reasons that the organisers feel effort is being made)......they are angry.

its like looking forward to going to work to man the picket line only to be disappointed the union has had dialogue to say management is working to a solution provided the men go back to work.

 

I was actually thinking of a similar analogy 

Mine goes something like this.

The union rallies the workers at the factory to strike for fair wages and better working conditions, but cancels the whole thing in the last minute because the board decides to put in fresh urinal cakes in the toilets

 

[YGabbana]

I was actually thinking of a similar analogy [emoji3]

Mine goes something like this.

The union rallies the workers at the factory to strike for fair wages and better working conditions, but cancels the whole thing in the last minute because the board decides to put in fresh urinal cakes in the toilets

 

Lmao

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, YLN said:

Forgive me for not believing that you read in the Birmingham Mail yesterday that Brian Little was going to be employed in an advisory role and your first thought was, 'we must cancel the protest this weekend'. I'm not talking about your emails to the club, or your letters. Members of your party appeared on SSN talking about the club and the protests. If Tom Fox wanted to get in touch with you, he's not checking his incoming mail in order to get your return address.

He got in touch. You guys met, he wowed and charmed you with his plan for the club; he offered an olive branch of a Brian Little appointment; you grasped it and promised to be his best friend forever. And then cancelled the protest once the ink was dry on Brian's 'advisory role' and Bernstein's seat on the board. Do you think Bernstein's appointment to the board of Directors at Carluccio's got such a positive reaction from their customers?

It's a nothing gesture and you sacrificed your protest on the back of it. There's something you're not telling us

Is there any particular reason for this nonsense?

What do you think is more likely, Tom Fox seducing dont_do_it_doug by parading around in frilly knickers whispering sweet nothings about boardroom restructuring, or that a group of people thinking on the hoof, with no particular media training or experience in running a protest movement just made a bad decision?

I don't agree with it either, but there's no need to be a cock about it. The people you're doubting are the ones who spend huge amounts of time, effort and money getting this ball rolling. You wouldn't even have had a protest for you to make shit up about if they hadn't stuck their necks on the line. 

[terrytini]

Well the last few pages made interesting reading.

First off, my fullest sympathies lie with Mike and the others who have piled so much work into this, for no other reason than to try and DO (rather than type) something to help our Club, and yet have been harangued right from the off by different sections for it being the wrong idea, the wrong time, the wrong goals, too little, too much, too late, too soon, not this, not that, and now Of when it should be ON, lackeys of the Board, easily pleased, and God knows what else. We all know how even a little criticism either on these Boards or from the missus, or the boss, makes us feel, yet these guys are getting it from all over.

So loud and clear you lot - an awful lot of us are pleased and proud of what you have achieved, and what you have enabled us to achieve by taking part.  The protest was noticed, it had an impact - the fact that that impact is indefinable is not the issue - even the greatest movements of recent history have often had little to show for their efforts, but making the effort matters in itself.

Hope that doesn't sound like an epitaph, but I suspect it may be !

For me, (as somebody who has stopped going  - for now ? but went v Everton to walk out) )the issue of a 'pause' isn't really one about which it I have strong feelings.  It makes as much sense to pause as it does to not pause - after all we are not some mass movement who had just nearly reached a critical mass whereby we were taking over, which is how some peoples desperate  disappointment reads !  I think it is a bit rich for people to almost talk in terms of being 'let down' as if they had signed up and paid for a long term course of treatment that had been cancelled.  Nobody could have definitively said, when this started, WHAT would happen next, and nobody, especially not the organisers, should feel bound to a specific course of action.  

That's the emotional side.

But for me, much, much more seriously, there is the pragmatic side.

A number of people on here seem to almost resent the latest appointments.  Certainly there are cries of "It doesn't alter the last 5 years !", and suggestions that those who welcome the appointments have been 'had', or are easily pleased. Standing out starkly is the cry that no matter what, Fox, and Lerner, must go.

In my view these views, are potentially as big a threat to our Club reversing its decline as anything else.  More so, maybe, in that if they become entrenched, it is hard to see how progress can come about.

In particular ;

To the complaints about the last 5 years - by definition nothing CAN atone for the money and emotions we have all wasted over that period.  So how, in all honesty, can it be a criteria by which we measure anything as of today, tomorrow, and going forward ?  Surely the best we can reasonably hope for in respect of those years is that the mistakes are not repeated ? It is asking for the impossible to demand actions which atone for them, therefore those that demand such, are trapping themselves and the Club in a place we don't want to be.

As for 'being had', or 'easily pleased'.  I can't think of anything more unfair than to suggest that guys who have poured sweat into getting OTD74 going are either of these things. And speaking for myself, I say I'm not a kid, I'm not stupid, and I'm neither easily pleased nor easily led.  I've watched this Club since 1971 and have seen lots of false dawns, and also lots (although not enough) of unexpected 'turn ups'. I'm not daft enough to think that these appointments, in themselves, mean anything. (Equally I'm not daft enough to think they were done 'to keep us quiet' -really ?).  But they ARE the TYPE of appointments we will need to make if we are going to turn around the culture at the Club.

Whilst they don't guarantee it, they at least open the possibility that, finally, a genuine recognition of our malaise has both occurred, and begun to be treated.  It is POSSIBLE to draw from these appointments (two extremely respected football men in their different ways) that Lerner has (to coin my own phrase from yesterday) realised he has to chop off his head, rather than keep adding and removing limbs.  The reason we are in such mess is not deliberate harm, it is cancerous, debilitating neglect. The reason our ENTIRE squad look worthless, no matter who Manages them, and the reason EVERY manager looks worthless, no matter who they manage, stems from the very top.  Lerner has, unwittingly (or perhaps witlessly) set a culture of failure and disinterest throughout everything at the Club.  IF he has finally recognised this, he may have handed over 'de facto' power t o Hollis, with a brief to run the Club properly and without reference t ohim.

If that has happened, it would be the single biggest step needed, because only with that cultural change that can come from his (Lerners) complete disassociation can a new healthy culture be introduced.  without one, we are doomed to continue to fall.

As I say, I recognise these are If's and Buts, but I think there are the signals available, just now, to at least pause and wait to see whether this is indeed such a change.  I don't think Bernstein or Little have anything to gain by not being very, very  clear as to what their roles are and what the Club is proposing to do to turn itself around.  They are not Wilkins, Keane, Fox, or whoever, both in different ways have significant reputations and are fully aware of where we are currently going.

Which leaves the last point above. I don't think it IS essential that Lerner go - despite having held that view since the day MON left.  In fact, I think there is a possibility (note that's all) that him staying could produce exactly the outcome we all want (assuming your agenda is not personal against him) - if the scenario I have outlined above is where we are going.

So, IMO, it is exactly right, and not weak, to pause (perhaps for longer than suggested) the protests.

[Mark Albrighton]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Tom Fox seducing dont_do_it_doug by parading around in frilly knickers whispering sweet nothings about boardroom restructuring

Just on the off chance this happened, I think I'm fair in saying pics or GTFO. 

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Just on the off chance this happened, I think I'm fair in saying pics or GTFO. 

I only said it cos it gave me a hard-on. 

[Brumstopdogs]

[DCJonah]

Randy Lerner owns Aston Villa.  Randy Lerner doesn't want to own Aston Villa. 

If you think it's not essential for him to go then I think you're kidding yourself. 

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Randy Lerner owns Aston Villa.  Randy Lerner doesn't want to own Aston Villa. 

If you think it's not essential for him to go then I think you're kidding yourself. 

I've said why I think there is a scenario where he could stay.  Why is that kidding myself ?

IMO if you think that it is  essential for him to go,(i.e. it is impossible to turn this around until he goes) you are misguided. What about the scenario I have outlined ?  Forget for a moment how likely you think it is, as none of us know that, but IF that is what we are doing doesn't that remove the 'essential-ness' ?

More to the point, as you think it is essential that he goes, (i.e. we cannot turn around unless he does) what do you think should happen until he does ?  Presumably all give up all hope, if its essential.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

I've said why I think there is a scenario where he could stay.  Why is that kidding myself ?

IMO if you think that it is  essential for him to go,(i.e. it is impossible to turn this around until he goes) you are misguided. What about the scenario I have outlined ?  Forget for a moment how likely you think it is, as none of us know that, but IF that is what we are doing doesn't that remove the 'essential-ness' ?

More to the point, as you think it is essential that he goes, (i.e. we cannot turn around unless he does) what do you think should happen until he does ?  Presumably all give up all hope, if its essential.

Your scenario is a disney film fantasy. For the last 5 years people have defended the owner, that he had a plan, that we'd spend again and yet here we are relegated as one of the worst premier league teams in history. 

Lerner doesn't want anything to do with us, if you believe a club can succeed with an owner like that then you're in dream world. There's nothing we can do but protest against him and hope he lowers his price at some point. Trying to kid yourself that board members will turn us into a success might make you feel better but its just blind hope. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

23 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Just on the off chance this happened, I think I'm fair in saying pics or GTFO. 

I'm holding them back for use in future protests

[Blasterpocket68]

Can't believe people are buying into a very weak olive branch from the club!

[terrytini]

52 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

Can't believe people are buying into a very weak olive branch from the club!

I can't believe some people assume multi millionaires care about offering us olive branches.

You really think Bernstein was offered, and accepted, a job with us because it might make some fans feel better ?

 

[MikeMcKenna]

I am going to say nothing about the decision to postpone but it was nowhere near as simple as people think. 

To say you think the decision is wrong is obviously fine, but I find the indignant reactions of some very strange. With the notable exceptions of those who helped in many ways, when we needed help with stuff like handing out leaflets and other stuff, we were deafened by the silence here and elsewhere. Ironically many of those who were openly criticising and quite vociferously against the whole concept of OTDO74 in the first place, from various quarters (not just VT) are now saying we were wrong to postpone. Go figure to use an Americanism.....

The small team who have been involved with OTDO74 have gone beyond the call of duty, received a lot of personal flak over the last three weeks, worked incredible hours etc etc  and if the collective decision to postpone was wrong so be it, but personally, I will not accept ******* lectures from those who did **** all and were able but couldn't be bothered to get off their arses and help. A small number of people stuck their head above the parapet and at the very least there should just a tiny bit of recognition.

Bluntly some people who are now saying they are 'out' were never **** 'in'

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Your scenario is a disney film fantasy. For the last 5 years people have defended the owner, that he had a plan, that we'd spend again and yet here we are relegated as one of the worst premier league teams in history. 

Lerner doesn't want anything to do with us, if you believe a club can succeed with an owner like that then you're in dream world. There's nothing we can do but protest against him and hope he lowers his price at some point. Trying to kid yourself that board members will turn us into a success might make you feel better but its just blind hope. 

It really isn't any such thing.

It is very, very common in failing businesses the world over and whilst it may or may not happen in this case, or work, it remains a common way to turn around failing organisations.

Why use derogatory phrasesclike " trying to kid yourself" just because a person has a view you don't agree with. It is a poor way to debate and doesn' tvmake you any more right.

[PompeyVillan]

In doing this, the organisers have become the perceived opinion leaders and mouthpieces for the club. And perhaps unintentionally became the external facing representatives of the fans, when all they really wanted to do was do something positive and the media was a means to an end.

In taking on something like this, you take it on as a someone who represents the fans, but not someone who directs them.

As such, the fans own this, not the organisers and it's arguably not their decision to make.

I think the folk that are annoyed are annoyed because they think their views have been misrepresented.

Personally I'm ambivalent now but I was glad someone was doing something. I'm not sure stopping now will have the required effect.

[briny_ear]

[Mark Albrighton]

To start with, a big thank you to the team who are behind the campaign, I can't imagine the effort and determination involved. My hat status in respect to you chaps-doffed. 

For the record, I'm speaking as someone who supports the protest, but isn't actually taking part for various, mundane reasons.

I understand the reasons to postpone the walkout and can sympathise with the idea of acknowledging that there has been some change at senior level (hopefully for the better, time will tell). I do share similar worries with others that the postponement and subsequent delay in the next planned walkout will undo a lot of the momentum and great work achieved by the organisers and those who took part during the Everton game. 

I think that by and large the protest has been measured and organised in it's approach and has achieved more than we initially thought it would. I think it's fair to say a lot of people are mainly concerned that the most productive supporter action in living memory may have taken a bit of a hit. 

As mentioned before, the team running this are not professionals at this, there's going to be disagreements or potential missteps along the way. Hopefully this is a bump in the road which can be overcome.

I don't know what personal abuse has been levelled at the organisers, but whatever it is, that's simply uncalled for. Agree with the protest or don't, either way, we're all ultimately on the same side.

I'm hopeful this movement can continue in a similar fashion and we don't reach the point where the only course of action left is for sexbelowsound to do "an Emily Davison" and throw himself in the way at a not-quite-stampeding Gabby to get the point across to the club.

I think that should be plan b and we can do another thread should it be required.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

14 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

You've no right to declare that.

Where were you when we were handing out flyers, putting 24 hours a day into building something that might actually make a **** difference?

Nowhere mate. Nowhere. That's where. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

10 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

To start with, a big thank you to the team who are behind the campaign, I can't imagine the effort and determination involved. My hat status in respect to you chaps-doffed. 

For the record, I'm speaking as someone who supports the protest, but isn't actually taking part for various, mundane reasons.

I understand the reasons to postpone the walkout and can sympathise with the idea of acknowledging that there has been some change at senior level (hopefully for the better, time will tell). I do share similar worries with others that the postponement and subsequent delay in the next planned walkout will undo a lot of the momentum and great work achieved by the organisers and those who took part during the Everton game. 

I think that by and large the protest has been measured and organised in it's approach and has achieved more than we initially thought it would. I think it's fair to say a lot of people are mainly concerned that the most productive supporter action in living memory may have taken a bit of a hit. 

As mentioned before, the team running this are not professionals at this, there's going to be disagreements or potential missteps along the way. Hopefully this is a bump in the road which can be overcome.

I don't know what personal abuse has been levelled at the organisers, but whatever it is, that's simply uncalled for. Agree with the protest or don't, either way, we're all ultimately on the same side.

I'm hopeful this movement can continue in a similar fashion and we don't reach the point where the only course of action left is for sexbelowsound to do "an Emily Davison" and throw himself in the way at a not-quite-stampeding Gabby to get the point across to the club.

I think that should be plan b and we can do another thread should it be required.

Cheers bud. I would like to add, give it time before throwing it under a bus. Though the thought of @sexbelowsound doing such a thing is appealing