Aston Villa Protest Group

[blandy]

51 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said:

Funny how he is so keen to defend club at all costs. 

3 hours ago, YGabbana said:

Them 'inside contacts' tho

Got to love forums and pretend ITK's

Can we stay away from these kind of comments please? It's not even accurate as far as my reading goes.

 

 

[Gary Thomas]

5 hours ago, Paul33 said:

You are making assumptions there that these things are not happening. Not all matters in back room business are broadcast to the general public. My understanding from (limited) inside contacts is that a pretty severe "root & branch" analysis and purge is taking place and has been taking place for weeks ..... (big) heads are going to roll but the positive side of that will not become visible until this season is over. They are (rightly) not looking to make major changes while this season still has to be played out.

So broadly speaking I share the frustrations but no, I still see no link between these protests and achieving those goals. They are just being seen as "angry fan protests" rather than protests for a targeted purpose. I'm happy we WILL get there but I don't believe these protests will have had any part to play in achieving them and if you really believe they are then I think you are a little delusional. 

So you believe an internal investigation is going on and heads will roll when the season is over, you think. But fans that participate in OTD74 are a delusional because these protests will have no part to play in achieving any positive outcome or goal?  How can you possibly know that?  The truth is you don’t, your just expressing an (uninformed) opinion.  Uninformed because it is naive to suggest that national and local media coverage of these protests, and by association, the club’s incompetence, will have no impact or bearing on what senior management think and do. Go and look at the research evidence on social movements and activist campaigns to see how campaigns often force change in organizational policies and political institutions, certainly enough to suggest fans are not delusional!!  Also, the fact that you believe that thousands of disgruntled supporters walking out in protest will no impact on management thinking tells you everything that is wrong with the club right now and why action needs to be taken.  You are essentially saying we count for nothing in management's eyes.  I personally find it hard to believe that experienced senior managers would be so naive as to ignore their main stakeholder group, especially with season ticket renewals around the corner.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[markavfc40]

9 hours ago, Paul33 said:

You are making assumptions there that these things are not happening. Not all matters in back room business are broadcast to the general public. My understanding from (limited) inside contacts is that a pretty severe "root & branch" analysis and purge is taking place and has been taking place for weeks ..... (big) heads are going to roll but the positive side of that will not become visible until this season is over. They are (rightly) not looking to make major changes while this season still has to be played out.

So broadly speaking I share the frustrations but no, I still see no link between these protests and achieving those goals. They are just being seen as "angry fan protests" rather than protests for a targeted purpose. I'm happy we WILL get there but I don't believe these protests will have had any part to play in achieving them and if you really believe they are then I think you are a little delusional. 

Paul I don't know if you are in the know or not but I can go along and assume that you are.

The thing I found most striking about your post above is that you didn't once mention that there will be a commitment to invest in the squad. Given the state of this squad it is going to take quite significant investment. With out that no matter what they do behind the scenes we won't compete for promotion next season. A lot of what I have heard from Hollis so far suggests that significant investment in the playing staff won't happen.

I am also not concerned with what heads roll. Heads have rolled before. Faulkner came in and fans gave him the benefit of the doubt and trusted that this guy must know what he was doing. Well he didn't. Tom Fox comes in and again people trusted that this guy must know what he is doing. We guess what once again he didn't. There is no nothing on Steve Hollis's CV that suggests to me he knows what he is doing and I am not prepared to do what I have done before and simply give him the benefit of the doubt. It matters little who gets sacked it matters who replaces them and as stated previously we desperately need people to be brought on to the board who have the knowledge, expertise and experience gained from working with in football as they will know what is required to provide the manager with the tools to put things right where it matters most on the pitch.

With regards your thinking that I am delusional comment fair enough you won't be surprised that I completely disagree. I think I was delusional for a number of years though trusting that those at the club must know what they are doing and being content to sit on my hands other than to pipe up every now and again in support of making another manager a scapegoat. I am not prepared to do that any more. Even if there is only a 1% chance that my actions in up coming games can have a positive influence on the club then it is worth trying. I encourage every other supporter to do the same and walk out the door on 74 as I strongly believe together we can make a positive difference. By making our message heard it at least offers the chance it will be acted upon. By doing nothing the message doesn't even get heard.

 

Edited March 6, 2016 by markavfc40

[Rob182]

If they were to make changes why wouldnt they do it now, if there are people who are shite at their job it would be pointless to keep them in position for another 3 months.

This is like when people say "I may as well play upfront, I wouldn't do any worse than our current players LOL1111!!"

As bad as things are now. Things can get worse. And as bad as our current players might be, all of us fans would be worse.

Why not get rid of people now?

Maybe because we don't know who we're bringing in as a replacement? Maybe because we don't want to rush a re-appointment? Maybe because there are still irons in the fire that the current people would be better placed to finish (ie: sponsorship/ manufacturer deals)?

Or maybe it will just be viewed as another off-field distraction, showing previous incompetence, that the team could probably do without while there are still games to play?

[blandy]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

didn't once mention that there will be a commitment to invest in the squad. Given the state of this squad it is going to take quite significant investment. With out that no matter what they do behind the scenes we wont compete for promotion next season. A lot of what I have heard from Hollis so far suggests that significant investment in the playing staff won't happen.

Absolutely. Bang on. To stop the descent and turn it round will require money (smartly used). I have no idea whether that is in their mindset at the moment. If they spend time just sort of trying to retrench, or wait for things to settle down, the club will be stuffed. Clubs getting relegated next season will have way more resources, due to the TV deal kicking in. The best chance of going up will be next season, they have to do everything to take that opportunity, not simply concentrate on cutting costs and removing deadwood. While they are chopping people on low paid jobs and cutting down on biscuits in the posh seats to save peanuts, those efforts are basically energy spent on the least important aspects, as well as counter productive.

[StanBalaban]

Quote

'I'm what you call the custodian. There have been plenty of custodians of Aston Villa since 1874 and if I can't make it work, I will do what the others did, move on and let someone else try.'

'People like me come and go. The fans will always own Aston Villa because they never leave.'

Read more: http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=27841#ixzz429mtK4sy

This for me is the ultimate point of our protest. No one forced him to buy the club. No one forced him to say these words, but he did.

Now we need to force him to be accountable for his own voluntary actions!

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 hours ago, Rob182 said:

This is like when people say "I may as well play upfront, I wouldn't do any worse than our current players LOL1111!!"

As bad as things are now. Things can get worse. And as bad as our current players might be, all of us fans would be worse.

Why not get rid of people now?

Maybe because we don't know who we're bringing in as a replacement? Maybe because we don't want to rush a re-appointment? Maybe because there are still irons in the fire that the current people would be better placed to finish (ie: sponsorship/ manufacturer deals)?

Or maybe it will just be viewed as another off-field distraction, showing previous incompetence, that the team could probably do without while there are still games to play?

I have a lot of time for this opinion. Though at the same time, on the pitch we are done. Toast. Forget it. If they have unfinished business as it were then the sooner they can complete it the better. 

Ultimately, nothing of this situation will change dramatically while Lerner remains. He has broken this football club. 

[StanBalaban]

The point of the protest for me is crystal clear. Whilst the financial scales are wildly different, they're also relative. For anyone that pops into Off Topic, a few may know that I'm passionate about my cars. About 9 years ago, I bought a Jaguar E-Type that was in need of some investment and TLC. There were a few out here in Dubai but I thought I had the chance to make a Midlands icon great again.

As it transpired, I didn't have the means to compete with the best that other owners in this region had to offer. I couldn't do the project justice so I let the car go for a "profit" on what I paid, but nowhere near what I spent on the car.  The car was bigger than my ego and my wallet allowed, but I 'owed' it to the car to do the right thing and let it go to a more capable owner.

Whilst Lerner's investment is far greater, so are his means. The point stands in my opinion though. No one forced me to but the car. I thought I could bring it up to code which, in turn, would make me feel like a don. I was wrong. The car deserved better, and our football club certainly deserves better.

In Randy's own words he said he'd hand over custody if he couldn't make it work. We don't owe him the return he wants on his investment. Aston Villa is far bigger than his trust-fund ego. If this protest goes someway to getting that message across then everyone that can should get right behind it. 

[villa89]

12 hours ago, Paul33 said:

My understanding from (limited) inside contacts is that a pretty severe "root & branch" analysis and purge is taking place and has been taking place for weeks ..... (big) heads are going to roll but the positive side of that will not become visible until this season is over. They are (rightly) not looking to make major changes while this season still has to be played out.

Firstly our season is over and has been for some time. Secondly I assume you are referring to back room personell when you say big heads are going to roll. That's fine, if true, as clearly the club hasn't been run properly but those faceless bureaucrats can be removed at  anytime there's no need to wait until the end of the season.

Also I fail to see what "benefits" we will see at the end of the season just by re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Faulkner, Fox, hollis, whoever it doesn't matter while the owner has no interest, wants to sell and the club's sole vision is cost cutting. This is the reason for the out the door protest. The fans want a reason to support the team other than blind loyalty. The owner won't give us one.

Edited March 6, 2016 by villa89

[Paul33]

11 hours ago, YGabbana said:

Them 'inside contacts' tho

Got to love forums and pretend ITK's

I am 100% definitely NOT ITK but I am 100% in contact with a low level employee and it is the talk amongst those employees that I'm sharing. No shockers in anything they are telling me. Significant staff ARE going (some is leaking to media already) and they know it already and are working agreed terms to maximise their pay-off so won't be leaving until season's end. Do the players know ? Yes and that is the crappy part because they know its all falling down around them !

PS: Am I down about it and want to protest about it ? Nope. I'm looking forward to next season already and I care not if it takes a few seasons to get back. I just want out of this tedious perennial relegation fight and even more tedious football style. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Paul33

[Stevo985]

Is this now an anti Garde protest? The twitter would suggest as much.

If so, I'm out.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Is this now an anti Garde protest? The twitter would suggest as much.

If so, I'm out.

Huh?

[MikeMcKenna]

51 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Is this now an anti Garde protest? The twitter would suggest as much.

If so, I'm out.

 

51 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Is this now an anti Garde protest? The twitter would suggest as much.

If so, I'm out.

Steve it is definitely NOT an anti-Garde protest. I was simply trying to illustrate that Fans have been protesting for years. I sent several tweets from my personal account with images which showed fans protesting about managers, Lerner, the board etc etc 

Edited March 6, 2016 by MikeMcKenna

[dont_do_it_doug.]

@Stevo985 if you are referencing this...

Then no. I can sort of see why you might think that reading it quickly. 

[Stevo985]

Apologies, the tweets were from Mike's account, not the OTD account.

Carry on

[MikeMcKenna]

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Apologies, the tweets were from Mike's account, not the OTD account.

Carry on

Stevo have PM'd you

[srsmithusa]

What are the plans for OTD and Bournemouth?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

15 hours ago, Paul33 said:

I am 100% definitely NOT ITK but I am 100% in contact with a low level employee and it is the talk amongst those employees that I'm sharing. No shockers in anything they are telling me. Significant staff ARE going (some is leaking to media already) and they know it already and are working agreed terms to maximise their pay-off so won't be leaving until season's end. Do the players know ? Yes and that is the crappy part because they know its all falling down around them !

PS: Am I down about it and want to protest about it ? Nope. I'm looking forward to next season already and I care not if it takes a few seasons to get back. I just want out of this tedious perennial relegation fight and even more tedious football style. 

I am ITK to the same level. I even revealed my source on the OTD Facebook page. I am told they in hack and slash mode. Fox will undoubtedly go though, as will his "team". Bring in the next clowns. Rip it up and start again. And again. And again. At least we have an accountant with zero football experience as chairman. Again.

I'm glad you're not down about it, but pretty much everyone else is Paul. You can't be OK with that? Your fellow lions suffering? What is a club if not it's supporters united. 

We are thousands, they are few... and we want our Villa back. 

 

[Rob182]

I am ITK to the same level. I even revealed my source on the OTD Facebook page. I am told they in hack and slash mode. Fox will undoubtedly go though, as will his "team". Bring in the next clowns. Rip it up and start again. And again. And again. At least we have an accountant with zero football experience as chairman. Again.

I'm glad you're not down about it, but pretty much everyone else is Paul. You can't be OK with that? Your fellow lions suffering? What is a club if not it's supporters united. 

We are thousands, they are few... and we want our Villa back. 

 

So... Once again I find myself asking.... What's the aim of OTDO74, with regards to this point?

Who decides when the people employed are the right people?

What happens if we get some 'football people' and continue to lose games and look crap?

When (or IF) we start winning games, will the board (whoever they are, at that time) suddenly become decent appointments, irrespective of whether they have 'football' experience or not?

It appears that the fans have called for change. It now appears that change may be happening, and now we're seeing criticism that the changes, that have not yet happened, will more than likely be the wrong changes.

All we can do is wait and see. This season is a write-off. We all know that. But let's not assume the next changes will be wrong, just because we have 'an accountant with zero football experience as a chairman'.

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

So... Once again I find myself asking.... What's the aim of OTDO74, with regards to this point?

Who decides when the people employed are the right people?

What happens if we get some 'football people' and continue to lose games and look crap?

When (or IF) we start winning games, will the board (whoever they are, at that time) suddenly become decent appointments, irrespective of whether they have 'football' experience or not?

It appears that the fans have called for change. It now appears that change may be happening, and now we're seeing criticism that the changes, that have not yet happened, will more than likely be the wrong changes.

All we can do is wait and see. This season is a write-off. We all know that. But let's not assume the next changes will be wrong, just because we have 'an accountant with zero football experience as a chairman'.

If we have 

1. "an accountant with zero football experience as a chairman"

2. a track record of abysmal decisions in every area, especially appointments - as indicated by this panacea-like, hope-inducing, rumored, house clearing

3. no clear communication from the owner or the chairman and a thereby forced reliance on ITK's that aren't really ITK

Are we then allowed permission to be a bit cynical?