Keinan Davis

[nick76]

3 hours ago, wilko154 said:

How do you know he hasn't been pushing for a loan? He might have been pushing for it every season but the club weren't allowing him to leave due to a lack of strikers at the club.

You really think every season in both windows and every time the club, under different managers and different ownership said no? More chance of me winning the lottery this weekend.

[Peter Griffin]

6 hours ago, desensitized43 said:

He'll be a great asset for a mid to lower Championship club

He is too high a risk for a mid to lower Championship club. They can't afford to have someone on the payroll that is not playing football. The only outcome I see for him is to be constantly loaned out until his contract expires. If he has a good season out on loan then maybe someone may pay a few million for him.

[Peter Griffin]

3 hours ago, wilko154 said:

How do you know he hasn't been pushing for a loan?

From recollection he is usually injured during transfer windows and when he is not injured he is involved with the 1st team. This summer was the first he was fit and was linked with a number of loans during the window and it did appear he was going to leave but he got injured again

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

From recollection he is usually injured during transfer windows and when he is not injured he is involved with the 1st team. This summer was the first he was fit and was linked with a number of loans during the window and it did appear he was going to leave but he got injured again

Not quite right…he’s been injury free the last couple of summer windows before this one if you look at his injury record, he just seems to get injury in the season.

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Not quite right…he’s been injury free the last couple of summer windows before this one if you look at his injury record, he just seems to get injury in the season.

Last summer he got injured and the summer before he was part of the first team as Wes was out injured. 

[nick76]

50 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Last summer he got injured and the summer before he was part of the first team as Wes was out injured. 

Not according to his injury record or my memory (unless Last summer you mean summer just gone but the summer before he wasn’t).  Either way he’s had 801 PL minutes in his Villa career so not much of a first team player whatever your meaning. To put it into context, Ings has only been at the club 2 months and has played almost 600 minutes.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/keinan-davis/verletzungen/spieler/412660

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by nick76

[Peter Griffin]

33 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Not according to his injury record or my memory (unless Last summer you mean summer just gone but the summer before he wasn’t).  Either way he’s had 801 PL minutes in his Villa career so not much of a first team player whatever your meaning. To put it into context, Ings has only been at the club 2 months and has played almost 600 minutes.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/keinan-davis/verletzungen/spieler/412660

 

Last summer as in the last summer i.e. the summer just gone. As I said he was injured and as per the injury history you posted he got injured on Aug 14th.

[nick76]

46 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Last summer as in the last summer i.e. the summer just gone. As I said he was injured and as per the injury history you posted he got injured on Aug 14th.

Plenty of chances over the years before that to go on loan.  Going this summer would’ve been good, shame about the injury but it’s all too late to kick on his Villa career, that boat has sailed.  He should’ve gone on loan years ago, built up his confidence, skill set and more about being a striker but that didn’t happen and now he’s been bypassed by kids and his development has been hindered as much by him than anybody else.

[Peter Griffin]

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Plenty of chances over the years before that to go on loan.  Going this summer would’ve been good, shame about the injury but it’s all too late to kick on his Villa career, that boat has sailed.  He should’ve gone on loan years ago, built up his confidence, skill set and more about being a striker but that didn’t happen and now he’s been bypassed by kids and his development has been hindered as much by him than anybody else.

Its not about going on loan, he is simply not good enough. He is a good player and can hold the ball up well but he is not a PL striker. He has been given loads of chances to prove himself at Villa and either injury or inability to score has stopped him progressing. 

He is only 23 now and in 17/18 season, as a teenager, he made 28 appearances for us in the Championship. Only 5 appearances the following season but 115 days injured as per your post above. Then 19/20 in the PL 18 appearances and in 20/21 he had 15 appearances. A total of 3 goals in those 72 games. It is not his fault nor is it Villa's fault that he hasn't made it. It is just lack of ability

 

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Its not about going on loan, he is simply not good enough. He is a good player and can hold the ball up well but he is not a PL striker. He has been given loads of chances to prove himself at Villa and either injury or inability to score has stopped him progressing. 

He is only 23 now and in 17/18 season, as a teenager, he made 28 appearances for us in the Championship. Only 5 appearances the following season but 115 days injured as per your post above. Then 19/20 in the PL 18 appearances and in 20/21 he had 15 appearances. A total of 3 goals in those 72 games. It is not his fault nor is it Villa's fault that he hasn't made it. It is just lack of ability

 

We totally agree!

[Risso]

Same here. Him getting a new contract was a bit of a head scratcher.

[MaVilla]

its a pity, because i remember back in 17/18 when he broke in to the first team, he looked like he had a lot of potential.

I remember him ghosting past players in that year for fun, i remember watching some highlights, watching this player skip past 2-3 players with silky skill for a big guy and thought, wow who is this!, he really stood out. (he obviously wasnt quite as bulked up back then).

I clearly remember there was a lot of talk about Man Utd being interested in him after that first season.

I think Davis did have the potential to develop in to a very good player, and at times you can still see it, he does have ability, but unfortunately he never really kicked on and cemented a starting spot, now he is 23 and hasnt fulfilled that initial potential at all.

I honestly think it was due to a number of reasons, partly that he kept getting injuries that hindered his progression, partly that he never got a run of goals to give him some confidence in front of goal, and partly that we misused him badly at times, by taking him out of the team, he didnt play much, and not sending him on loan to develop and start getting in the goals earlier in his career, or at least have the chance to get a good, steady run in a loan scenario to have the chance to get some goals in the bank if he were able to develop that instinct and confidence.

Luckily, i think the current regime at Villa definitely wouldnt repeat the mistakes we made in his development, with our current youth players.

I do think, that if he could stay fit, and possibly got a permanent move to a championship club who played him week in, week out, he would be a very good player for a team at that level.

[VillaChris]

23 hours ago, Enda said:

According to FM he’s on £25k a week. No reason to believe that’s the exact figure but I’d be surprised if he’s on less than £10k a week.

Yeah he's going to in 25-35k ballpark. Think he's had two contract extensions since promotion and whether he's rated or not he's a regular matchday option and those aren't on less than 10k a week, that will be something Archer will be on although he'll get a new contract soon enough given his impact recently.

Stoke seem to rate him so can see them coming in for him again in January or even if they get promoted end of the season.

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Yeah he's going to in 25-35k ballpark. Think he's had two contract extensions since promotion and whether he's rated or not he's a regular matchday option and those aren't on less than 10k a week, that will be something Archer will be on although he'll get a new contract soon enough given his impact recently.

Stoke seem to rate him so can see them coming in for him again in January or even if they get promoted end of the season.

perhaps do a swap for Harry Souttar plus dough.

[VillaChris]

6 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

From recollection he is usually injured during transfer windows and when he is not injured he is involved with the 1st team. This summer was the first he was fit and was linked with a number of loans during the window and it did appear he was going to leave but he got injured again

According to DS last season I think he wanted to go out on loan in January but Wesley obviously wasn't fit so we had to keep him around just in case Ollie was out for a few weeks.

Does seem a bit odd he didn't go out on loan in 18/19. He'd done o.k the previous season when he had the run of starts under Bruce and after the first month we had Kodjia, Tammy and Hogan as the three experienced strikers so that was enough without needing Kienan around. Can't remember how injured he was that season but pretty sure he came on v WBA in the play offs.

Even first season up in the prem I'd have loaned him out as again we had Wesley who started every week and then Kodjia as experienced sub. We were happy last season just going with Ollie and minimal backup so he surely could've been loaned out in August 2019 for six months.

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Its not about going on loan, he is simply not good enough. He is a good player and can hold the ball up well but he is not a PL striker. He has been given loads of chances to prove himself at Villa and either injury or inability to score has stopped him progressing. 

He is only 23 now and in 17/18 season, as a teenager, he made 28 appearances for us in the Championship. Only 5 appearances the following season but 115 days injured as per your post above. Then 19/20 in the PL 18 appearances and in 20/21 he had 15 appearances. A total of 3 goals in those 72 games. It is not his fault nor is it Villa's fault that he hasn't made it. It is just lack of ability

 

DS seems to rate him though otherwise why does he keep granting contract extensions? We obviously won't get much for him either way but if club didn't think he was good enough there would've been no new deal and he'd have left on a free or minimal cost with one year left.

In any case we have two top level strikers now at club and Archer obviously needs more minutes given how well he's done so yeah Davis may just about make the bench given it's 9 subs but no way he's coming on ahead of likes of Traore and Buendia. El Ghazi also been unused sub last three games I think now so shows how far down the pecking order he is now if you group him with the general attacking options at the club.

[Laughable Chimp]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

According to DS last season I think he wanted to go out on loan in January but Wesley obviously wasn't fit so we had to keep him around just in case Ollie was out for a few weeks.

Does seem a bit odd he didn't go out on loan in 18/19. He'd done o.k the previous season when he had the run of starts under Bruce and after the first month we had Kodjia, Tammy and Hogan as the three experienced strikers so that was enough without needing Kienan around. Can't remember how injured he was that season but pretty sure he came on v WBA in the play offs.

Even first season up in the prem I'd have loaned him out as again we had Wesley who started every week and then Kodjia as experienced sub. We were happy last season just going with Ollie and minimal backup so he surely could've been loaned out in August 2019 for six months.

Back then villatalk were banging on and on at how it was lunacy to go into the season with just 3 strikers,(we ended up with 0 fit strikers at one point so the sentiment is understandable) so I don't think they would've looked upon your suggestion to loan out Davis favourably.

Davis has just been unlucky. First season up in the prem he rather quickly became the backup striker in the club as it was clear Smith didn't rate Kodjia at all, hence getting rid of him even when both our other strikers were injured. It just so happens that Davis was injured a lot as well.

Second season Davis was unlucky in that Watkins just never got injured or tired and became too vital to the team for Smith to drop. This meant that Davis couldn't enter the pitch unless it was for another winger, leading to a formation change and Smith was always going to look for another winger to sub in first before looking at Davis.

 

[fightoffyour]

Davis has been pretty much 2nd or 3rd choice striker when fit for as long as he's been here up until after this summer window, and at that point he did have a loan lined up before getting injured. And he would've still been 3rd choice at the start of this season after Wesley went on loan, although he's now behind Archer. He may well have been pushing for a move earlier than that as well for know. Not sure what Davis has done wrong really, he's been terribly unlucky with injuries.

[Davkaus]

£25k a week for a few years. Multi-millionaire Keinan Davis. One for The Game's Gone thread.

[HanoiVillan]

On 07/10/2021 at 23:12, VillaChris said:

Even first season up in the prem I'd have loaned him out as again we had Wesley who started every week and then Kodjia as experienced sub. We were happy last season just going with Ollie and minimal backup so he surely could've been loaned out in August 2019 for six months.

@Laughable Chimp has already said this but Davis was second choice over Kodjia, who Smith had clearly fallen out of love with at that stage.

It's been the same story every window. Either he's injured, or we haven't had enough strikers and the club hasn't wanted to invest in getting any. Consequently he has continued to be a cheap 2nd or 3rd choice option. It's only now, with the emergence of Archer as a 3rd choice option, that Davis is out of the first team picture. I think your other point about 18/19 is more reasonable, but at that stage a loan would probably have been to a League One side, and I'm not really sure how much difference it would have made.