The Rémi Garde thread

[AntrimBlack]

Just now, briny_ear said:

I don't think it's cherry picking!

Norwich possession of 52%, 13 shots, 5 on target, 11 corners was superior to our performance. We were outplayed by Norwich for a lot of the match and anyone watching with honest eyes would have to admit that. We really could have lost that match like the others you mention where the defence didn't "keep their heads".

But I'm not really expecting this delusional Garde love-in to stop whatever the results (if Sunday can't stop it, nothing will!). 

 That is the very definition of `cherry- picking'.

I happen to rate Garde - is that a love-in? I think not. You do not rate him - is that a hate-in? Again I think not. These are opinions, which we are both entitled to, and exaggeration spoils your post unnecessarily.

I rated Lambert, too, so that tells you how much I know about managers anyway. 

 

[tonyh29]

9 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I rated Lambert, too,

Lambert Lover

[Dr_Pangloss]

50 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

You mean being ahead of his time, and the pioneer of foreign managers into the League?

His methods are commonplace now, but were completely alien to British players.

Although perhaps you did not mean it to be a compliment?

Well there's nothing pioneering about Garde. 

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

The improvements, no matter how slight, are there, they wouldn't be there under Sherwood.

I don't like this using the first ten games under Sherwood this season as the yardstick and setting that as something to judge Gardes time here by. I mean you couldn't set the bar much lower could you.

Garde has had 15 league games, won two, taken 12 points. His record is crap. Better than Sherwoods 4 points in 10 but still crap. We have scored 10 goals in those 15 games and conceded 26 which again is absolutely diabolical. The only positive I can see is that in 15 games we have lost 8 so he has made us harder to beat but on three occasions we have been absolutely annihilated.

In terms of how we play we look at times tighter at the back but going forward we are a non entity. We don't play with any attacking intent and I am not sure what our game plan is in terms of attacking. There is way too much sideways and backwards passing and going absolutely nowhere. In terms of our attacking play I expected more and that he would try something a little out of the box and more radical. The only time I can remember that happening under under him was when we went with Kozak and Gestede up top against Leicester.

I acknowledge he inherited a shit situation but four points from safety with 27 games to go was not a hopeless situation. The change in manager was made in the belief that his predecessor wasn't getting anything like enough out of the squad. For me his first task was to keep us in touch with safety to have any hope of being given significant funds in January. He failed as we found ourselves 11 points from safety at the beginning of January having had a number of favourable fixtures in the run up to it.

I am not writing Garde off by the way. Far from it. I genuinely like the guy but I am just not prepared to give him a free hit over 27 games and judge him against his predecessors record this season, who many fans describe as not even being a manager. I will make my decision on Remi at the end of the season but for what it is worth I doubt very much he will be here come the start of next season either by his own choice or those above him.

Edited February 16, 2016 by markavfc40

[Adbo9]

3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't like this using the first ten games under Sherwood this season as the yardstick and setting that as something to judge Gardes time here by. I mean you couldn't set the bar much lower could you.

Garde has had 15 league games, won two, taken 12 points. His record is crap. Better than Sherwoods 4 points in 10 but still crap. We have scored 10 goals in those 15 games and conceded 26 which again is absolutely diabolical. The only positive I can see is that in 15 games we have lost 8 so he has made us harder to beat but on three occasions we have been absolutely annihilated.

In terms of how we play we look at times tighter at the back but going forward we are a non entity. We don't play with any attacking intent and I am not sure what our game plan is in terms of attacking. There is way too much sideways and backwards passing and going absolutely nowhere. In terms of our attacking play I expected more and that he would try something a little out of the box and more radical. The only time I can remember that happening under under him was when we went with Kozak and Gestede up top against Leicester.

I acknowledge he inherited a shit situation but four points from safety with 27 games to go was not a hopeless situation. The change in manager was made in the belief that his predecessor wasn't getting anything like enough out of the squad. For me his first task was to keep us in touch with safety to have any hope of being given significant funds in January. He failed as we found ourselves 11 points from safety at the beginning of January having had a number of favourable fixtures in the run up to it.

I am not writing Garde off by the way. Far from it. I genuinely like the guy but I am just not prepared to give him a free hit over 27 games and judge him against his predecessors record this season, who many fans describe as not even being a manager. I will make my decision on Remi at the end of the season but for what it is worth I doubt very much he will be here come the start of next season either by his own choice or those above him.

Bang on the money !!!!

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Rowett might not be a terrible suggestion, but I can't see the club employing anyone from SHA after the last debacle (and to be honest, while there might be cosy conformity on this forum that he'd be decent, I'm willing to bet there'd be plenty of protests in the real world). 

I agree with you but its wrong, petty rivalries and past mistakes should not get in the way of picking the right man.

[DCJonah]

As usual, spot on Mark. 

[AntrimBlack]

28 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Well there's nothing pioneering about Garde. 

And I did not say there was.

[srsmithusa]

without re-hashing all the arguments for why each of us think what we think about Garde, can we agree that the club need to sort it out soon about what's the plan for next year?

If we're going to give him backing and he will stay and we want him to, surely that should be the topic of meetings RIGHT NOW.  If he is going to walk or if we would rather rebuild with someone else, we should be identifying that someone else and talking to them RIGHT NOW.

As I've said, I see the improvement, I think he could build a solid, entertaining team here.  I think the debate over that can and should rage, there are certainly reasonable reasons to doubt my conclusion.  But I don't believe that whatever we think or post will influence the club.  The Club needs to make that decision and act on it, the sooner the better.  If we wanna keep him, we better be negotiating the financial and decision-making paradigm NOW.  If we don't wanna keep him, we better be having those same discussions with one or three others we might want instead.

The rebuilding process will need to be complete.  An early commitment and start will be important.

[useless]

Garde's improving us, it took a while because of the fragile state that Sherwood left us in, but things are definitely improving, despite Saturday's embarrassment. If we had have sacked Sherwood and appointed Garde in the summer like I and others advised then we wouldn't be in this predicament now.

[PaulC]

Just now, useless said:

Garde's improving us, it took a while because of the fragile state that Sherwood left us in, but things are definitely improving, despite Saturday's embarrassment. If we had have sacked Sherwood and appointed Garde in the summer like I and others advised then we wouldn't be in this predicament now.

No thats not right. You can't say theres improvement and the team wouldn't be in this predicament when the team suffer their worst home defeat since 1935

[useless]

Just keep sacking managers over and over again is pointless, we need some stability. It would be even more pointless to get rid of Garde and replace him with someone who's in a similar vein and no better than any other manager we've had recently.

[PaulC]

No I'm not blaming Garde in the same way I'm not blaming Sherwood. 

[useless]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

No thats not right. You can't say theres improvement and the team wouldn't be in this predicament when the team suffer their worst home defeat since 1935

It shouldn't be judged on one result before that game we were improving and were close to mid-table in the form guide and we'd gotten some good results over the last five or so games. I think that between now and the end of the season we will continue to improve.

[Duck]

1 minute ago, useless said:

It shouldn't be judged on one result before that game we were improving and were close to mid-table in the form guide and we'd gotten some good results over the last five or so games. I think that between now and the end of the season we will continue to improve.

We were improving yes. But after the performance on Sunday, the managers reaction and what "players" have said, I really can't see any positivity going into the last few days. 

Any momentum that we had has surely gone now. Any belief is gone. Any hope, has gone.  If we win another game all season I'll be happily suprised

[useless]

We'll just have to see how we react against Stoke. I remember Wigan losing something like, 9-0 against Tottenham a few seasons back and in their next game they won 1-0. If we can do similar and other results go our way leaving us five points behind with eleven games still to play, then we should have a bit of confidence back and hope, from a league table point of view.

Edited February 16, 2016 by useless

[HanoiVillan]

36 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I agree with you but its wrong, petty rivalries and past mistakes should not get in the way of picking the right man.

No argument from me. 

[NeilS]

I guess it comes down to whether or not people think the players are as bad as they are performing? Jamie Carragher was laying into the team saying it was the worst team in PL history the other day, and it is hard to argue otherwise after a 6-0 drubbing. can the players perform better than they have? So far this season they have been pretty bad, and for most of them we are going a long way back into history until we see their best form.

When you look at our attacking options of Gabby, Ayew, Kozak, Sinclair and Gestede, it is hard to argue that we should be scoring more goals. None of them bar Ayew fill me with great confidence. Look at the individual player threads on here, all of them get slated regulary. Then when looking at our AM positions, Grealish is a young lad, who has had too much expectation placed on him and was always going to struggle with second season syndrome, Gil is over-rated on here, Adama is a young lad learning and seems to have spent most of the season injured. Maybe I am missing someone here, but i am struggling to see many good options unless we strike it lucky with someone from the acadamy coming good which judging by their results is unlikely.

Defence is just shocking, I can't find a good word to say about any of them. We should have been buying a new GK in the summer, Richards was bought to be the leader in CD, and just has no idea on what position he should be standing in. I can't be critical of Amavi or Cissokho as they haven't played too many games, but the rest are just shocking. The writing has been on the wall for years regarding Hutton, we are almost rid of him and then give him a new deal. Lescott and Richardson are just two players on a final payday in the twilight of their career that burned brightly a few years ago, but is now glowing embers about to extinguish.

Midfield, We have too many players new to the league in this imortant part of the team. Gueye and Veretout have probably been our better performers but that is not saying alot, we have been let down by the older guard here in Westwood and Sanchez neither of whom have imposed themselves on the team allowing the new guys to settle in at their own pace. With the AM guys mentioned above struggling, the lack of decent attacking options, it is easy to see why we struggle to build decent attacks that stretch the opposition.

Whilst Garde is getting all of the flack, the main offenders responsible for assembling this squad are dodging the full share of the blame.

[BOF]

Good post Neil and I don't think there's a whole lot people can disagree with in your assessment of the squad.  My only issue is not with you but with Carragher.  He has a short memory if he thinks we're the worst Premier League side ever.  We're not.  Yes we're shite, and I take no solace from the fact that there have been worse teams in the past.  Because the saddest thing is that there have not been worse Villa teams.  But I won't be having that from him.

[Adbo9]

27 minutes ago, useless said:

It shouldn't be judged on one result before that game we were improving and were close to mid-table in the form guide and we'd gotten some good results over the last five or so games. I think that between now and the end of the season we will continue to improve.

its not the form table were bothered about tho, its the league table and Garde has done nothing to suggest hell get us off the foot of it...............