DCJonah Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Sacking him now is pointless. If nothing really improves much then he should be sacked the day after the season ends. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 But its just as easy to argue keeping him now is pointless,(literally aswell as figuratively !) if that is all the argument boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 11, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, terrytini said: I dont buy the logic of saying lets see what he does with his own players ? They will still be footballers you know, they will still be of a similar standard, with a similar perch on the pay scale. They wont be his kids or anything. So we would be saying, OK, you didnt have any joy with that Squad, try another ? Not for me. He has to prove himself by getting the very best out whats here, which I dont yet think he has, but he may. If he doesnt win any games, for example, we shouldnt keep him ! Thats hardly extreme ! You can't look at it the situation in a vacuum like that. It's not just the quality of player he's had to work with, which is very low indeed. It is the situation he found them in emotionally and physically. It is the HUGE gaps in the squad that will need to be filled no matter what division we find ourselves in. It is the complete lack of belief and the extreme apathy of the crowd. Year after year many of these same players and particularly the fans have been through the same bullshit, those that care are probably exhausted and those that don't simply don't deserve to play for any football club, never mind one as wretched as ours. The club is rotten from the inside all the way out, I bet even poor Doris has ran out of teabags. To say "oh well he has some decent players" is way too narrow minded. As poor as I think he has been in many aspects so far, this is no time to judge his longer term ability. He hasn't had the short term impact we needed and now that opportunity has come and gone. So we switch to plan B, lets see how he builds from here. Because that is the one part of his CV that appears strongest. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You can't look at it the situation in a vacuum like that. It's not just the quality of player he's had to work with, which is very low indeed. It is the situation he found them in emotionally and physically. It is the HUGE gaps in the squad that will need to be filled no matter what division we find ourselves in. It is the complete lack of belief and the extreme apathy of the crowd. Year after year many of these same players and particularly the fans have been through the same bullshit, those that care are probably exhausted and those that don't simply don't deserve to play for any football club, never mind one as wretched as ours. The club is rotten from the inside all the way out, I bet even poor Doris has ran out of teabags. To say "oh well he has some decent players" is way too narrow minded. As poor as I think he has been in many aspects so far, this is no time to judge his longer term ability. He hasn't had the short term impact we needed and now that opportunity has come and gone. So we switch to plan B, lets see how he builds from here. Because that is the one part of his CV that appears strongest. I agree with pretty much all that, and cant argue with the idea that one way to try and sort that all encompassing mess out would be to stick with Garde. Although of course it could be argued we need a Manager who can sort the playing side out DESPITE that big mess, as we have no idea how long that could take. But I still dont see that he should effectively get a free pass, which is what it amounts to if he is simply "given till the end of the season and a chance to bring his people in" as seems to be the line of a fair few. I still think he has to be measured on performances and results, and, if they both continue at their current level, there will be an argument, in six or seven games time, to say he is the wrong guy. He cant just have the excuse that the Club is a mess so he doesn't need results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2016 I don't think anyone will win with these players this season. Next season we'll be in a new division, with a summer off and a blank slate, I think that's an opportunity for a manager. I like Garde, I feel bad for him that he's unlikely to get that opportunity, as things stand I think we'll sacrifice him on the altar of the remains of this campaign - he can carry this shambles to the summer, by which time he'll be utterly broken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, terrytini said: Nope. Because its not the same players. It's not exactly the same players, because in some cases we sold good players and replaced them with worse ones. We also got Amavi, who is a big improvement on anything we've had at left back. But the fact remains that the vast majority of the players in this squad are the same ones who struggled last season and only just got out of trouble thanks to the goals of someone we since sold. If you can explain to me how that points towards it being the managers fault I'd be grateful because I just can't see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 27 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: 4 hours ago, BOF said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 11 minutes ago, terrytini said: I agree with pretty much all that, and cant argue with the idea that one way to try and sort that all encompassing mess out would be to stick with Garde. Although of course it could be argued we need a Manager who can sort the playing side out DESPITE that big mess, as we have no idea how long that could take. But I still dont see that he should effectively get a free pass, which is what it amounts to if he is simply "given till the end of the season and a chance to bring his people in" as seems to be the line of a fair few. I still think he has to be measured on performances and results, and, if they both continue at their current level, there will be an argument, in six or seven games time, to say he is the wrong guy. He cant just have the excuse that the Club is a mess so he doesn't need results. I think performances > results. I think we should judge his suitability at the end of the season based upon what he can do with this particular mess, whilst at the same time taking into account said mess. I genuinely believe now, given how things have progressed, that we were doomed no matter who we appointed. We don't have a single serviceable striker, we had one actual full back who's knee blew itself apart and we'd have been better off playing the season out with a traffic cone between the sticks. I want them to bring in some of his players now so that he has an opportunity to show what he is capable of when given a fighting chance. Because as things stand he is on a hiding to nothing. 6/7 games isn't enough, I'm prepared to give him another 18 to be honest. I'd like us to sound out Moyes in the meanwhile though, you know, just in case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, terrytini said: Edited January 11, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 Apparently we talked to Moyes when we got Garde, you would hope BOTH interviews were along the lines of how to rebuild the club from the ground up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted January 11, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, terrytini said: But I still dont see that he should effectively get a free pass, which is what it amounts to if he is simply "given till the end of the season and a chance to bring his people in" as seems to be the line of a fair few. This is the part I can't get my head around. I completely acknowledge he inherited a mess. I just can't put my faith in Garde if anything like this run continues until the end of the season though. If I was to do that what would I be basing that faith on? His CV as a manager is limited. He had three seasons at one club where by most accounts he did well. However he had zero experience of going into a struggling side, zero experience of going into a club mid season and has zero experience of managing a club in a second tier and zero experience of getting a club promoted. Nothing on his CV suggested he could drag a club in the shit out of it and nothing on his CV points to him being able to bring a club on its knees back up. In my lifetime I have only come close to experiencing anything like this once in 1986/87. At that time the man who came in to rebuild a club that was a shambles was Graham Taylor. A guy with vast experience of lifting a struggling club, a guy with vast experience of building a team, a guy with vast experience of multiple promotions a guy whose CV told you he could manage on a budget and take average players and mould them into a team and get average players performing to a level above and beyond their natural ability. If Garde had that kind of CV I could put my faith in that. I could cling to that. Gardes past never really suggested he could come in here and turn things around quickly and instil confidence into players devoid of it, quickly organise us and at the very least have the players giving their all. We had to have a little bit of blind faith that he could do that and reading this and other threads at the time he was appointed it seems most of us believed it was possible to get more out of this squad. Certainly the board did as they spent millions making the change. He has had no short term impact though so that somewhat blind faith was misjudged. If we do get to the end of the season and results have stayed pretty much as they have been under him so far then why should I again put faith in Garde if he has had no positive impact on results or significant impact on performances. His CV doesn't give me any indication he can get a club promoted as Graham Taylors did back in 1987. You can't just throw blind faith into a manager simply because we think chopping and changing managers is the wrong thing to do or because we don't know if the next guy the board appoint will be any good. If that was the case we may as well have stuck with Tim Sherwood and I don't remember many calling for that 10 games into the season. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I think he has brought a semblance of order to the team, but is finding it impossible to integrate the older team members, as they lack the ability. And the defence in particular is a shambles, all are poor players, except Okore, who is just decent, but can improve. If you were to omit the silly, stupid, goals given away by the defence (And even ignoring acceptable errors that all teams make) there would be enough wins and draws to have taken us close to safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 48 minutes ago, terrytini said: But its just as easy to argue keeping him now is pointless,(literally aswell as figuratively !) if that is all the argument boils down to. It's pointless as in we're relegated what ever happens. But it might show he's the right man for next season and save us another search. The decision on who gets to bring us back up should be made in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 2 hours ago, sidcowans21 said: And here is where the problem lies. Players here seem DO seem to have a problem carrying out what the Managers want. This is why i think he frozen Gabby out. Besides being shit, i think he is a disruptive influence on the team. yes but Gabby hasnt played in about a month and the same things are still happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I don't think anyone will win with these players this season. Next season we'll be in a new division, with a summer off and a blank slate, I think that's an opportunity for a manager. I like Garde, I feel bad for him that he's unlikely to get that opportunity, as things stand I think we'll sacrifice him on the altar of the remains of this campaign - he can carry this shambles to the summer, by which time he'll be utterly broken. Not necessarily. We're all down because we've had such poor results. One win and the mood softens massively I think. We've been a bit unlucky as well as poor, that happens to struggling sides. But another moment of inspiration from Ayew and a miracle shut out tomorrow night and who knows, perhaps the players will feel the pressure lift a bit. They need to start playing with the freedom of a team that know there is nothing riding on any of these games. Then who knows, the miracle may happen. But more realistically Garde might be able to carve out a bit of something that resembles form. I still believe there is a turning point for us this season, but it won't keep us up. But it may help us build a bit of momentum for next season. One win. That's all we need. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I did post this on Saturday night and nobody replied but am still intrigued to know if people from the club read the topics on this site? Does anyone think someone does - just curious. Obviously, I'm not saying Randy or Tom Fox would but pehaps a PR/Media person? If I was a player and/or manager I for one would be intrigued to see what fans were saying about me. Moreover, someone from the club should print some of these comments and show them to certain people, maybe then we would see a reaction! Edited January 11, 2016 by ferguson1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 I like the fact that he has called out Fox and Lerner. He's got bottle, and fight. Shows he not willing to roll over and go with a whimper. I'm just struggling to see how he can attract players that'll turn the season around. For me I'll happily let him see the season out, hopefully there will be a change in fortunes, let him rebuild in the summer, whatever division that may be, and entrust him a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 My money is on Garde walking a la MON at the seasons end, it looks like cracks are appearing and Garde is just another patsy. I also think that he is a decent honourable sort working in a mad house, but will stay until the end of the season. I am certain that idiot Lerner will give nothing, he thinks he is actually being prudent by not investing in the club year on year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, ferguson1 said: I did post this on Saturday night and nobody replied but am still intrigued to know if people from the club read the topics on this site? Does anyone think someone does - just curious. Obviously, I'm not saying Randy or Tom Fox would but pehaps a PR/Media person? If I was a player and/or manager I for one would be intrigued to see what fans were saying about me. Moreover, someone from the club should print some of these comments and show them to certain people, maybe then we would see a reaction! Yes I read somewhere some of the PR people employed at VP have to browse the fan sites from time to time to judge the mood and relay that to the board. Back to the Garde bit,,,,,surely the relevant question is are you confident Remi Garde is the person to bring us straight back next season, either automatically or through the play offs. To do either we'll need to win 25/46 games at least so just over 50% win ratio. I've said before in recent years premier league teams who've gone down with foreign manager or rookies have struggled. Cardiff went down with Solsjkaer, he was sacked by October. Same with Fulham and McGarth. QPR went down with Ramsey, same result. When Wolves went down they appointed Stale Solbakken who'd done well in Scandinavia, he lasted just past xmas. Whereas likes of Hull and Burnley who have managers who know that division inside out are in the top 6. When I said before this I was told "totally different situation." I'm not sure why as we'll probably finish on lower points than most of those teams who were relegated and our club is as badly run as some of those clubs, indeed Fulham's a bit of a decent comparison with us. Were in prem for years and years without getting relegated, gradually got worse as they sold key players and the money got withdrawn and then they got a new owner in that Khan bloke and he's so far been clueless appointing managers and they don't look like going up anytime soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, thunderball said: My money is on Garde walking a la MON at the seasons end, it looks like cracks are appearing and Garde is just another patsy. I also think that he is a decent honourable sort working in a mad house, but will stay until the end of the season. I am certain that idiot Lerner will give nothing, he thinks he is actually being prudent by not investing in the club year on year. I see this as well. Probably will blame Lerner and say he was set up for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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