dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Garde wants rid of Nzog - refers to Nzog as an example of our long running problems - again, another reason why he is the correct manager for us. I want rid of Nzogbia, I too think he is an example of our long running problems. Would I be the correct manager? Ive seen Garde getting credit for apparently targetting better players than we have and now recognising Nzogbia is shite. Sorry but they are no brainer decisions. When he does something actually impressive, like oh I dont know win a couple of league games, then he starts to get credit for me. Not for some rumoured thoughts he is having! How many previous managers have done this? Publicly I mean, it's quite bold. Some like to claim he has no personality, that's clearly not the case is it. Can we not just say credit where it's due? I know you've taken against him pretty early and that's fine, the results have been dire. I'm not overtly impressed myself. However, as I asked, does that mean everything he does has to be met with derision? I like some things about him. I think tactically he gets it right 9 times out of 10. Our problems are not related to how he sets us up. I think we look fitter than before. I like how he handles the media, I don't think they are mere "sound bytes". He hasn't done enough to improve the low confidence levels, to help cut out the individual errors particularly defensively. I think he has gotten bolder with his changes but he hasn't had anything like the immediate impact I would have hoped for. Is it not too early to write him off? Considering some of us gave Lambert almost 3 years? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 but people said the same for getting rid of Given though plus Bent and Ireland previously. I think its just a bonus point for a manager to give him some praise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Difference is that Bent & Given contributed so they were difficult decisions that could split opinion but Zog? He has literally stole a wage since day 1 and Garde is the first manager in how many to say 'he's gone'. Surely this shows a bit of common sense and understanding that previous managers have been lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: does that mean everything he does has to be met with derision? ....... Is it not too early to write him off? Considering some of us gave Lambert almost 3 years? Just two bits to talk about Dave. I am not meeting everything he does with derision. I am commenting on some fans giving him credit for things that IMO he does not deserve it for and not giving him criticism for things he definitely needs it for. In terms of Garde himself he comes across as a well spoken , charming engaging man who you could listen to for hours. Very articulate and intelligent. I dont dislike him. I do dislike the results he has achieved, I do think he will not improve us and I do severly doubt we are in the right hands to rebuild us. On Lambert, I've gone over and over this on this site it's boring now, he was two managers ago but he kept us up and he basically funded our transfer budget last summer. It was right he went when he did . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8, 2016 40 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: every other day i read the paper its we're after this french star or that french star. okay every other day may be going over the top but i do read it quite often. 95% of football transfer rumours are made up bollocks. Our manager is french, and he's shown some interest in a couple of french players. That's enough for journos to then link us to every french player under the sun. Let's see who we sign before we start moaning about them (I know you weren't but another poster was), and then let's judge them on how they perform rather than their passport. If we sign a load of French players and they play like Veretout or Amavi then I'd have a squad full of them as opposed to good experienced english folk like Lescott and Gabby. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 does that mean everything he does has to be met with derision? ....... Is it not too early to write him off? Considering some of us gave Lambert almost 3 years? Just two bits to talk about Dave. I am not meeting everything he does with derision. I am commenting on some fans giving him credit for things that IMO he does not deserve it for and not giving him criticism for things he definitely needs it for. In terms of Garde himself he comes across as a well spoken , charming engaging man who you could listen to for hours. Very articulate and intelligent. I dont dislike him. I do dislike the results he has achieved, I do think he will not improve us and I do severly doubt we are in the right hands to rebuild us. On Lambert, I've gone over and over this on this site it's boring now, he was two managers ago but he kept us up and he basically funded our transfer budget last summer. It was right he went when he did . So you are stating, categorically, that he doesn't deserve credit for calling out and shipping out shit like N'Zogbia? Pointing out the problem within our dressing room and taking steps to address them? Who isn't giving him criticism for results? Point the posts out, I'll happily disagree. I wasn't talking about just you. He was shit for a long time, really shit. Under better circumstances than Garde walked in to. But I, like you, gave him time. Time to sign the likes of Benteke and get him firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: So you are stating, categorically, that he doesn't deserve credit for calling out and shipping out shit like N'Zogbia? Pointing out the problem within our dressing room and taking steps to address them? Who isn't giving him criticism for results? Point the posts out, I'll happily disagree. I wasn't talking about just you. He was shit for a long time, really shit. Under better circumstances than Garde walked in to. But I, like you, gave him time. Time to sign the likes of Benteke and get him firing. Why should he get credit for being rumoured to have basically made the decision on Nzigbia that 99% of the fan base made 4 years ago? And that is what it is at the present a rumour. has Nzogbia gone? Whos to know that other managers didnt decide the same but in order for the player to go their needs a willing buyer. Are we to give him credit for there now being a willing buyer. In terms of shipping our "shit like Nzogbia" who else is he shipping out? who else has actually gone? Joe Cole and Gary Gardner so far. Lets see what happens for the end of the window, actually give him the time people want to give him, before giving him any credit for anything. What concerns me is actually the results and in terms of that I see lots of comments saying things like "it isnt his fault it is not his team he has not been here long enough he hasnt got his coaching team here " designed to mask the results , you've seen them as well Dave not need to point them out you know they exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, Richard said: Why should he get credit for being rumoured to have basically made the decision on Nzigbia that 99% of the fan base made 4 years ago? And that is what it is at the present a rumour. has Nzogbia gone? Whos to know that other managers didnt decide the same but in order for the player to go their needs a willing buyer. Are we to give him credit for there now being a willing buyer. In terms of shipping our "shit like Nzogbia" who else is he shipping out? who else has actually gone? Joe Cole and Gary Gardner so far. Lets see what happens for the end of the window, actually give him the time people want to give him, before giving him any credit for anything. What concerns me is actually the results and in terms of that I see lots of comments saying things like "it isnt his fault it is not his team he has not been here long enough he hasnt got his coaching team here " designed to mask the results , you've seen them as well Dave not need to point them out you know they exist. Because he is the first person with the authority to do so to come in and recognise that Zog needs to go and is rumored to be don't something about it. Can you not see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just now, Ingram85 said: Because he is the first person with the authority to do so to come in and recognise that Zog needs to go and is rumored to be don't something about it. Can you not see that? How do you know others didnt recognise it? and as it is he is only "rumoured" to be doing something about it he deserves credit for the rumour then? He was also rumoured to be interested in signing some lower league French players, does he deserve criticism for that or do we ignore the rumours that we dont like and only give credit for those we like? Lets see what happens first but he may have the authority to ship Nzogbia out , it still needs a willing buyer. Does he get the credit because there is now someone willing to take Nzogbia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well he hasn't relegated us yet so does he deserve all the criticism yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Does it not help that nzogbia is down to months on his contract? Look what happened when Lambert tried to do similar with hutton. Train with the kids until we're desperate because he's got a longer contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just now, Ingram85 said: Well he hasn't relegated us yet so does he deserve all the criticism yet? So no criticism for the results and not having won a game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Does it not help that nzogbia is down to months on his contract? Look what happened when Lambert tried to do similar with hutton. Train with the kids until we're desperate because he's got a longer contract. Less for the club to lose, maybe financially it is acceptable now. So maybe Fox et al deserve the credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: EDIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well he hasn't relegated us yet so does he deserve all the criticism yet? So no criticism for the results and not having won a game? He's receiving plenty of criticism for that. Sorry, but I'm sick of this. Picking sides, or being told which side you're on, with managers or players or staff and not being allowed to be flexible within somebody else's framework. It's a joke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 28 minutes ago, KHV said: The vast majority of fans said the squad was good enough to do better and it was Sherwood's fault, now Garde is doing shit and it is now because the players are shit and nobody could do any better. Given the complete lack of a coherent system this season, the question in my mind wasn't "is it Sherwood or the players?" The question was, "is it just Sherwood, or is it both?" I think we are seeing that it was both. Not just because Garde hasn't increased the points total, but because Garde has IMO implemented a much more cohesive alignment of strategy, tactic, line-up, and personnel; and while I think our play has improved, clearly not enough, and clearly not on the table.. So, what we now know is, it was more than just Sherwood, it was also the quality within the squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Does it not help that nzogbia is down to months on his contract? Look what happened when Lambert tried to do similar with hutton. Train with the kids until we're desperate because he's got a longer contract. Less for the club to lose, maybe financially it is acceptable now. So maybe Fox et al deserve the credit? Maybe they all do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: He's receiving plenty of criticism for that. Sorry, but I'm sick of this. Picking sides, or being told which side you're on, with managers or players or staff and not being allowed to be flexible within somebody else's framework. It's a joke. I'm not allowing anybody to be anything or saying they cant do what they like Dave. I'm debating an opinion by explaining mine, that you and others have actually criticised me for! So should I say that you are doing the same? It's a site for fans to debate Villa. I'm telling you my opinion and then justifying it when getting questioned and pushed on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 54 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Sherwood 1 point from last 9 games, Garde 4 points from his first 9 games so results (and performances) are better - just nowhere near good enough to avoid relegation. I usually agree with almost all your comments Richard and I'm very surprised you aren't willing it cut Garde some slack atm 4 points from 9 games though... an improvement. How shit have we become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: oh yes, its the only paper that caters for my needs i wipe my ass with it too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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