The Rémi Garde thread

[AntrimBlack]

9 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Mark, I was one of those such supporters. I also still believe this squad is(sorry was) good enough to stay in this division. What I do think though is that Garde(just an opinion) has had more than confidence issues to deal with at the club since arriving. Now I am not saying some of it is not brought on in the way he may have dealt with things but something is clearly wrong with the players. Especially the likes of Gabby and Grealish who should be fighting their nut's off and forcing their way into this team to keep us up and at least make an effort when on the pitch. As with others who have commented it would not surprise me if certain players have caused a divide in the dressing room with our foreign signings due to having their noses put out of place. Look at Grealish today for instance..did he look like he was bothered? even when we were pressing the game early doors his body language and effort was shocking. His first start for weeks and thats all he can muster?! I know you rate him as do many but age is no excuse for effort.

Also I stick by my views regarding the summer signings. I thought at the time and still do that we brought some good quality younger players into the team. Ayew, Traore, Veretout, Amavi.Then with Richards, Gana, Gil, Grealish, etc thought we had the makings of an exciting team. Although lacking up front I felt there was/is more depth than previously, I still do however it is obvious our weaknesses lie in those that have been playing premier league football more than a couple of months which I have also commented on previously. The effort and quality from the senior players above all has been nothing short of disgraceful at times.

Now I definitely don't think Garde can automatically be given however long in the job regardless of performances. IMO there definitely needs to be progress between now and the end of the season even if only for the sake of pride. What I will back him on currently though is removing bit by bit the underachievers, the shit and those who don't give a toss.

Excellent summation.

[AntrimBlack]

Get rid of the solid, proven, premier league players we have, and bring in more young French players with potential, and put some life into this team.

[AntrimBlack]

The young foreign players that the media were so quick to castigate, and that Sherwood washed his hands of, have been the only shining light for me in this abysmal season.

 

[AntrimBlack]

I appear to be thinking in sentences this morning.

I can only blame it on last night.

[markavfc40]

10 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Mark, I was one of those such supporters. I also still believe this squad is(sorry was) good enough to stay in this division. What I do think though is that Garde(just an opinion) has had more than confidence issues to deal with at the club since arriving. Now I am not saying some of it is not brought on in the way he may have dealt with things but something is clearly wrong with the players.

 What I will back him on currently though is removing bit by bit the underachievers, the shit and those who don't give a toss.

I haven't quoted all your post mate as I didn't want to clog up the thread.

For me it is the managers responsibility to get the best out of each and every player. Or get the best out of the majority of the squad to at least give him half a chance. Almost every manager that comes into a club part way through a season is coming into a struggling side where they will face issues though.

If I look at the players who were performing noticeably better under Sherwood and those now doing better under Garde I would say Richards, Gestede, Sinclair, Gana and Grealish did better under Sherwood. Veretout, Lescott, Ayew have done better under Garde. The rest have been much of a muchness. I get the impression the likes of Hutton, Clark, Bacuna, Guzan, Westwood, Sanchez, Gil, despite varying degrees of ability, always in the main put a shift in.

You say you back him in removing the underachievers but he inherited too many to simply remove them and give us any chance of staying up. What he needed to quickly do was bring the squad together and get the best out of it to have any hope of that. Or at the very least keep us in touch with safety until January where he could then potentially bring in a handful of new players. He hasn't even got close to doing that and surely for every fan that was the least of our expectations under him.

The players aren't blameless in all this. Not even close and I have been disgusted with some of them but this was a squad containing 13 new players and it was always one that was going to require plenty of work in bringing it together but there is no better way to achieve that and getting players to buy into what you are doing by getting results. Remi has failed to do that and can't point to one single improvement he has made to get the players to buy into what he is doing. We in fact concede more goals since he arrived, we don't score any more and most importantly we haven't won.

I still maintain that I am not sure what Remi has done prior to coming here or since he arrived to warrant some being of the belief he should remain here next season at this point, that he has the ability to get us results and playing better or is capable of building a squad to bring us back up. I don't know much about his limited managerial experience other than when he went to manage Lyon after they had just finished 3rd, oversaw league finishes of 3rd, 4th and 5th and the season after he had left they finished 2nd. He it seems achieved about what was expected of him at Lyon and if anything the low end of those expectations.

Remi may well prove to be a good manager for us. I am not writing him off and am happy to give him longer yet before judging him on whether he should be here next season. What I will say is though if he was a manager that was incapable of getting the best out of this squad or at least improve on what his predecessor achieved with it, a manager that needed a transfer window or two, and basically a manager that needed time, then for the predicament we were in he was the wrong manager.

Edited January 3, 2016 by markavfc40

[Kingman]

Chin up lads, The new manager bounce thingamajig will kick in soon!

[Guest av1]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

I take a little problem with this, in pointing out that those are all pretty much true.  For a long time now, we've taken bargain basement managers that nobody else has shown any interest in - who haven't really achieved anything worthy of note.  To put it bluntly, for a shit as the team has been - we've taken just as shit managers.

Again, so many love to discount all manner of experience when experience is our best measure of success.  Long term experience shows us consistency, and chances of success at repeating what those experiences have been.

We've really gambled on some crap along the lines, Mcleish was best known for relegating blues twice and the rest is just managing a few scotish teams.  Tim Sherwood, his managerial experience is all of half a season at spurs - that's it.  Anything else Sherwood did was not as a manager, it was the wrong appointment at the time but actually turned out okay as he kept  us up but since then the walls came crashing down.

Now our latest manager is really just a guy who managed a French team for a few seasons and spectacularly kept them run of the mill...wowzers.  There is really nothing else, because that is the full extent of his managerial experience, to give good indication that he's likely to be a success here.

All of them have been largely unknowns, none of our managers have gone on to leave the Villa and achieve anything of note for some 10 years or so.  Most of the managers we've picked up have been out of work with good reason I would suspect...

Someone said that even the best manager in the world couldn't get this team playing, how can anyone say that when we haven't even had one close.  Let's just be honest, our team is shite but we haven't done ourselves any favors in the management recruitment either.

And to put that into context, people have pinned hopes on the Leicester blue print.  They went out and got a manager with bags of experience that spans over years, and he has some great plaudits to boot in improving teams performances (as well as some not so successful tenures).

I'd agree with all of that. Our managerial appointments have been terrible and I'm not trying to completely absolve them of blame regarding our demise over the last few years.

But I do maintain that our problems run much deeper than the Manager, the club is shambles. You look at cost cutting and what that's meant for player recruitment (when you buy lower league players it shouldn't come as a great surprise when you end up playing in a lower league) and those Manager's were always facing an uphill battle. 

Given all the issues at the club I think changing Manager yet again, before he is even given a window or two to build his own team would be a mistake at this stage. As you say, we haven't been able to attract a really high class Manager for years, I can't imagine that is going to change when we become a championship team. 

[mikeyp102]

Could one of the reasons Garde's impact has been minimal is that he didn't get the back room staff he wanted? It seems a problem at the club that we get the manager but not their full back room staff (let's not forget Sherwood wanted Ramsey).

[MikeMcKenna]

27 minutes ago, Neil said:

I take a little problem with this, in pointing out that those are all pretty much true.  For a long time now, we've taken bargain basement managers that nobody else has shown any interest in - who haven't really achieved anything worthy of note.  To put it bluntly, for a shit as the team has been - we've taken just as shit managers.

Again, so many love to discount all manner of experience when experience is our best measure of success.  Long term experience shows us consistency, and chances of success at repeating what those experiences have been.

We've really gambled on some crap along the lines, Mcleish was best known for relegating blues twice and the rest is just managing a few scotish teams.  Tim Sherwood, his managerial experience is all of half a season at spurs - that's it.  Anything else Sherwood did was not as a manager, it was the wrong appointment at the time but actually turned out okay as he kept  us up but since then the walls came crashing down.

Now our latest manager is really just a guy who managed a French team for a few seasons and spectacularly kept them run of the mill...wowzers.  There is really nothing else, because that is the full extent of his managerial experience, to give good indication that he's likely to be a success here.

All of them have been largely unknowns, none of our managers have gone on to leave the Villa and achieve anything of note for some 10 years or so.  Most of the managers we've picked up have been out of work with good reason I would suspect...

Someone said that even the best manager in the world couldn't get this team playing, how can anyone say that when we haven't even had one close.  Let's just be honest, our team is shite but we haven't done ourselves any favors in the management recruitment either.

And to put that into context, people have pinned hopes on the Leicester blue print.  They went out and got a manager with bags of experience that spans over years, and he has some great plaudits to boot in improving teams performances (as well as some not so successful tenures).

That Ranieri has experience is unquestionable, but his record was actually not that great after leaving Chelsea and his success at Leicester has been surprising to say the least. It is easy to look around after the event and say 'we could have signed Ranieri' but to the best of my knowledge no-one even considered him as a possible manager. Leicester are this years Southampton - people talk of copying another teams 'blue-print' but imho it never works like that. Leicester are a total one off and frankly other than Ranieri, getting lucky with Vardy and Mahrez I am at a loss to see what their 'blueprint' is. Like Southmpton they will fade from the limelight when they start to lose a few key players. 

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

The issue at hand here is that this isn't Garde's team - he didn't assemble it, he didn't sign anyone and he has to deal with the situation at hand. 

If he's backed in the transfer window and we see what he can do, then we are in a position to really judge the guy. 

He is highly unlikely to be backed in the transfer window to the level required to make this anything like his own squad. To have got significant backing he needed to keep us in touch and he has failed to get close to that.

I don't know if he came into a shit storm in the dressing room or not. He wouldn't have got the job though if he was coming into a bed of roses. No manager gets a job part way through a season unless it is one where another manager has failed and a side is struggling and has issues. The new man usually comes in and the owner and supporters expect him to improve on what his predecessor got out of the squad otherwise what is the point. Sherwood came into a similar situation to Garde faced this season. We hadn't won in 10, had taken just three points from 30. He quickly turned that around and didn't need a transfer window. 

I didn't expect miracles from Remi. A point a game would have been enough and a realistic aim. He hasn't even got close to that though and instead of us having a fighting chance of bringing in some new players and staying up we have no chance. Allardyce at Sunderland inherited a poor squad and a side at the foot of the table. He has just about kept them ticking over and in touch with safety to now mean they can spend a few quid in January and bring in a few players knowing they have a chance of staying up. I'd have taken that when Sherwood was replaced and I think that was possible but clearly Remi was not the right man to achieve it. Whether he is the right man to bring us back up only time will tell but he needs to show a big improvement on what we have seen so far to be given the chance to.

Edited January 3, 2016 by markavfc40

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, av1 said:

I'd agree with all of that. Our managerial appointments have been terrible and I'm not trying to completely absolve them of blame regarding our demise over the last few years.

But I do maintain that our problems run much deeper than the Manager, the club is shambles. You look at cost cutting and what that's meant for player recruitment (when you buy lower league players it shouldn't come as a great surprise when you end up playing in a lower league) and those Manager's were always facing an uphill battle. 

Given all the issues at the club I think changing Manager yet again, before he is even given a window or two to build his own team would be a mistake at this stage. As you say, we haven't been able to attract a really high class Manager for years, I can't imagine that is going to change when we become a championship team. 

Yeah, your post wasn't the best example of what I was trying to address but it listed previous managers to elude that we've been through so many managers we can't keep blaming them or so it read.  I absolutely stand that you can put some blame on all their shoulders (including Garde), because they've just been crap at their job - not entirely their fault they're crap but certainly their crapness is partly at fault for our demise.

But oh yeah, don't get me wrong...the bigger portions of blame are definitely not the managers.  The biggest problem is the clown at the top driving the clown car, we're rotten throughout - the recruitment has been shocking.  But the right appointment could have pulled the right change at the right time to nick a win somewhere along the 9 game stretch, even with this basket case of players.

[Xela]

15 hours ago, Didiersix said:

Is the whole 'experience of the Championship' overplayed for requirements when it comes to management? I mean, Karanka and Clement didn't have that much experience of Championship management and seem to be doing OK...

 

Clement inherited a Derby team that should have got up last season. Karanka has done well but he's been there over 2 years. We need an instant impact with a team devoid of any confidence and quality perhaps?

[useless]

We need some continuity, as long as we see some steady signs of improvement under Garde from now until the end of the season, then I think he should be the person charged with bringing us straight back up. In the long run I think we'll be all the better for it.

[Genie]

Does anyone else think we're underachieving too? I know we are not CL standard but when I look at the individual ability of the majority of the players and the glimpses of decent periods of play we should not be rooted to the bottom.

For me this is where the coaching team are failing. 

[useless]

@uselessWe actually need new owners.

Edited January 3, 2016 by useless

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said:

That Ranieri has experience is unquestionable, but his record was actually not that great after leaving Chelsea and his success at Leicester has been surprising to say the least. It is easy to look around after the event and say 'we could have signed Ranieri' but to the best of my knowledge no-one even considered him as a possible manager. Leicester are this years Southampton - people talk of copying another teams 'blue-print' but imho it never works like that. Leicester are a total one off and frankly other than Ranieri, getting lucky with Vardy and Mahrez I am at a loss to see what their 'blueprint' is. Like Southmpton they will fade from the limelight when they start to lose a few key players. 

Well just as I'd pointed out, and even since Chelsea, he has demonstrated improving teams as well as some not so good appointments.  It's a long career and has a lot of ups and downs, but you'd take a punt that the downs have been learning experiences.

Ranieri just wasn't at the forefront of anyones mind I would say, but if you'd asked me at the time Garde or Ranieri - I'd have said Ranieri because Garde has such a small CV of nothing note worthy.  Overall Ranieris win rate is enough to give us a top 10 side, for want of any better statistic.

[weedman]

I like Remi, I think he is/will be a good manager. He's articulate, clearly knows what he's talking about and has a defined style with sensible team selections.

It cannot be denied however, that he is not doing a good job. We've had a couple of performances where we've looked organised for the most part, but it's led to nothing.

If the transfer committee is true, and I don't think there's much doubt that it is, then we would have had largely the same squad if he had started the season instead of Sherwood. We had already replaced Benteke, Delph, Vlaar and Cleverley with lots of new additions, and it was considered too much of an upheaval, I can't imagine him also binning off Gabby, Guzan, Hutton, Westwood etc as well, it would have been too much and I don't think we would have done it.

If we would have had largely the same squad, which I'd say was likely, then would we be doing any better? It's not like he came in here and we were cut adrift to the point there was no return, we were 4 points adrift after 11 games. 11 games! Not even 1/3rd of the season! In those 11 games we'd actually played some decent stuff at times (should have got more from Palace, Sunderland, Leicester but for some horrendous luck/individual brain farts) but it didn't lead to anything, Sherwood was clearly out of his depth and rightfully sacked. What has Remi done that's better?

I want him to succeed, and I like the idea of him moulding his own squad and building us up again, but he has not done anything to warrant that (yet), and until he shows us he is capable of doing something that the last managers couldn't do I don't think he can be immune from all criticism, I mean, it took Sherwood 11 matches to get 4 points adrift, it's taken Remi 9 matches to get a further 7 points cut away, not quite the messiah yet

[Xela]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

Does anyone else think we're underachieving too? I know we are not CL standard but when I look at the individual ability of the majority of the players and the glimpses of decent periods of play we should not be rooted to the bottom.

For me this is where the coaching team are failing. 

Yes, hugely!

Norwich, Bournemouth and Sunderland, in my opinion, haven't got a better squad than us. Maybe I'm overplaying the ability of our players but are Norwich really 15 points better than us? Are Watford really 21 points better than us? I'd say definitely not. The difference is good coaching, good management and players giving a shit.

[useless]

As the saying goes a lot of football is played in the head. Leicester aren't as good as second in the league in terms of ability but the confidence that they got from the end of last season and the start of this, is having it's affect. Just as the start we had under Sherwood is having it's affect on our players. We just need that first win, to turn things around under Garde.

[markavfc40]

23 minutes ago, useless said:

We need some continuity, as long as we see some steady signs of improvement under Garde from now until the end of the season, then I think he should be the person charged with bringing us straight back up. In the long run I think we'll be all the better for it.

We do need continuity but it needs to be under the right manager. Perhaps you were but I don't remember many of us screaming for continuity under Sherwood.

Based on what I have seen so far if I was asked if we should trust Garde with the medium to long term future of this club in terms of managing it then I would have to say no as I could not put up one single coherent argument based on what I have seen so far for why he should be entrusted with it.

As you say if he shows improvement between now and the end of the season then he may well warrant being given beyond this season in charge. What I would say is though if this run without a win was to continue for too much longer, say another half a dozen games, then I'd be surprised, regardless of what Fox has said, if he were to still be here at the end of the season.

Edited January 3, 2016 by markavfc40