The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[HanoiVillan]

15 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

There is nothing wrong with knowing the numbers. It's the thinking and the desired end result that need to be watched.

The chatter via the briefing from Rudd's team (that she took particular care to name and thank publicly) was that once we know a small firm is employing foreigners we can shame them and flush them out until they bring british workers up to standard at their own cost and employ them instead.

This was not pitched as an equality initiative. Quite the opposite, it was pitched as a threat to use labour which as part of the discussion was described as inferior - or else. Or else we will publicise you as a haven, by definition, for bloodsuckers stealing jobs and crashing the health service. 

It was not the same thing, it was not a comparable thing.

Even if they'd attempted to dress it up as some form of positive discrimination then there would have been more of an argument for it not simply being a knee jerk offering to people that see foreigners as the problem.

But it wasn't dressed as positive discrimination, it was simply flushing out the employers of foreigners. If she can't see that, she's woefully underqualified to be a Home Secretary.

 

She had the platform to herself, she wasn't restricted by soundbites, it was a speech of a duration of her choosing, on subjects of her choice, with accompanying briefing notes and lobbying of her choice. It was all completely under her control to deliver whatever message she wanted. What the media picked up in that section was something that smells like shit, reads like shit and sounds like shit. I guess there's every chance they were all wrong and it was a misunderstood chocolate gateaux.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, that's a good explanation of why it should be worrying. 

[choffer]

It's a sneaky one but we're definitely being given a discrete message here:

 

 

 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

So why, you might ask, is it wrong to investigate whether companies discriminate against British workers?

If a company hires foreign workers as an actual policy, surely that is just as wrong as if they hired only British workers as policy?

Characterising attempts to investigate the hiring policy of companies as Aryanization is just typical Lefty self-indulgent over-dramatisation.

Your questions address a non existent scenario and the conclusion you draw is not supported by the evidence:

"Is it wrong to investigate whether companies discriminate against British workers?" - Asking, or forcing companies to report on the figures for each nationality they employ is not "investigating whether they discriminate".

 "If a company hires foreign workers as an actual policy, surely that is just as wrong as if they hired only British workers as policy?" Yes, it's illegal. It's already outlawed.

"Characterising attempts to investigate the hiring policy of companies as Aryanization is just typical Lefty self-indulgent over-dramatisation." As exhibited in the Times, Telegraph, by members of the Tory party, by Tory MPs - Lefties to a man, eh?

[chrisp65]

There's a very good case for companies taking on local youth from their area and training them up. Old school versions of journeyman apprenticeships should be encouraged. For the right reasons and with support. But that takes time and costs money. It's not what this is about. This is about sounding tough on sponging moneysucking foreigners.

Meanwhile every government contract is awarded to the cheapest - end of. No quality assessment beyond do we know they are not competent. You've passed that assessment by being invited to tender. 

So SmallCompanyDave submits a tender at £10 with a glossy blurb that shows he's planted trees to stop flooding locally, he's recycled to stop pollution locally, he's volunteered to paint the local school as part of Business in the Community, he's sponsored the local mini football league and he's taken on 5 local boys n girls as apprentices. Brilliant.

He's done everything Amber Rudd, Sajid Javid, Andrea Leadsom and Justine Greening have asked. Top top banana.

Slight hitch. A Chinese firm, has come in with a bid of £9.99 no other supporting documents.

Liam Fox says soz lolzzz. It's a brilliant free trade world out there.

You could have pitched cheaper by employing 3 Polish graduates. But Rudd will get thick people from UKIP and ConservativeHome to come around and smash your windows.

 

Meanwhile: How do we get British kids to get the skills to contribute? Simple, it's all about grammar schools. You can teach kids subjects in Grammar school it would be impossible to teach in comp.. If we close the comps and put 80% of kids into a system the tories can't even bring themselves to name yet, all will be fine.

Well, by fine, they'll either be retards that blame 'x foreign nation name here' or they'll be fine. Win win.

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

4 hours ago, peterms said:

And Jonathan Portes says Hi Sir Stephen.  And he also says of Nickell's paper

if 1 % is nothing then perhaps he'll give me 1% of everything he earns 

Mr Portes wrote:

Quote

Now 1 percent, even over 8 years, is not nothing

 

[peterms]

3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

if 1 % is nothing then perhaps he'll give me 1% of everything he earns   

 

I think you missed the bit where he says " Now 1 percent, even over 8 years, is not nothing, especially to relatively low paid workers ".

You also missed that he says it's 1% over 8 years, or one-eighth of a percent.  As he says, it's about a penny an hour.

As a basis for a conference speech by a Prime Minister, laying the blame on immigrants for the immiseration of the workers, it's...well, shall we say a little weak?  Or possibly disingenuous?  Or even a complete and shameless misrepresentation?

[peterms]

oops - Snowy in first...

 

[blandy]

After a few days of pretending to be nice and democratic and listening to people and so on, they've reverted to type.

Despite the resident, the parish council, borough council, and Lancashire County council all voting against allowing fracking on the Fylde, the Gov't has decided to tell them all to eff off and has overruled them all.

words removed

[Xann]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

After a few days of pretending to be nice and democratic and listening to people and so on, they've reverted to type.

Despite the resident, the parish council, borough council, and Lancashire County council all voting against allowing fracking on the Fylde, the Gov't has decided to tell them all to eff off and has overruled them all.

words removed

I hope the locals go proper apeshit.

[OutByEaster?]

7 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

The reaction to the Tory plan to find out how many foreigners companies employ seems inconsistent with the attitudes expressed when similar attempts were made in the cause of racial and gender equality.

Those things are opposite though aren't they? The two things you've mentioned are examples of trying to force an equality of treatment for people regardless of gender or race - the recent one is about trying to force an inequality of treatment of people based around birthplace or passport. 

I'm in favour of promoting equality of opportunity - so I like the first two and dislike the third - that seems quite consistent to me.

 

[Risso]

4 hours ago, blandy said:

Your questions address a non existent scenario and the conclusion you draw is not supported by the evidence:

"Is it wrong to investigate whether companies discriminate against British workers?" - Asking, or forcing companies to report on the figures for each nationality they employ is not "investigating whether they discriminate".

 "If a company hires foreign workers as an actual policy, surely that is just as wrong as if they hired only British workers as policy?" Yes, it's illegal. It's already outlawed.

"Characterising attempts to investigate the hiring policy of companies as Aryanization is just typical Lefty self-indulgent over-dramatisation." As exhibited in the Times, Telegraph, by members of the Tory party, by Tory MPs - Lefties to a man, eh?

 

He's right though, it is a load of old bollocks.  We have to report the percentage of Manx/non-Manx workers we employ, and nobody on the Isle of Man thinks anything of it.  And it's the most tolerant place I've ever lived.

[villakram]

They need to be really careful as even with the YUGE distraction going on over here, the trending towards a hard brexit option is getting a surprising amount of non-complementary media attention from financial/political/business types. 

[blandy]

26 minutes ago, Risso said:

...., it is a load of old bollocks. ..... the most tolerant place I've ever lived.

Some folk more tolerant than others? 

(hope you got home safe and on time on Saturday, btw. Shame we couldn't have had more time for a chat)

[tonyh29]

11 hours ago, peterms said:

There's plenty of data about the numbers of foreign workers, which sectors they are employed in, and so on.

Rudd's little brainwave is not about data, it's a purely political act to suggest we should disapprove of companies which employ foreigners.  It's meant to play to the "taking your job" meme.

Instead of which, we get something meant to stoke bar-room racism for short-term political gain.

Turns out Rudd may have borrowed policy from the racist Labour Party ... oops

 

 

“Where there is a problem in sectors identified, we need to make it possible for action to be taken at a local level,” he said.

“We should survey employers and where there are for example more than 25% migrant workers - double the average share in the economy - Jobcentre Plus should at least be notified.

“Not to impose a quota, because it can’t do that, and it’s not the right thing to do, but to help identify there a problem might be a problem here, maybe we need to do something about the training of workers here.

“To get them the skills they need to compete to have a fair crack of the whip. Then we can set about providing the training to fix it.”

[peterms]

On 10/6/2016 at 14:59, blandy said:

After a few days of pretending to be nice and democratic and listening to people and so on, they've reverted to type.

Despite the resident, the parish council, borough council, and Lancashire County council all voting against allowing fracking on the Fylde, the Gov't has decided to tell them all to eff off and has overruled them all.

words removed

Some details here of what will no doubt be one of many protests.

Quote

IMPORTANT - it is now CONFIRMED: this event will be on SATURDAY 8TH OCTOBER as Sajid Javid, Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government, OVERRULED our local democratic assertion to stay frack free:

The residents and groups in Lancashire have met and asked that as many as who can - come anytime from 10am (arrive when you can) to Preston New Road - Maple Farm forecourt (next to World of Water Blackpool. and one field from the proposed fracking site at PNR).

 

[Davkaus]

The government will now only accept academic advice and analysis on brexit that is from British nationals. What the **** is wrong with these people.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

What the **** is wrong with these people.

They're tories (and then they've nearly all caught UKIPitis).

May appointed f-wits into key positions. Result f-wittage occurs.

[Davkaus]

I thought Gove was in his own little world, but the senior members of the Tory party seem unified in their pride at their anti-intellectualism.

We don't need evidence, experts, facts, or anything else of the sort, especially not when they're provided by johnny foreigner. We need laughable appeals to emotion, skewed stats, and anecdotes to sway the uninformed.

And they probably have another 9 years.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Davkaus

[StefanAVFC]

Absolutely mental. 

I thought it wasn't a vote for xenophobia?

That's what we were told anyway. 

[mockingbird_franklin]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

 

May appointed f-wits into key positions. Result f-wittage occurs.

so May just continuing along same lines as Cameron them. To be fair, the Tory party has its fair share of mega f-wits to choose from