Rugeley Villa Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 3 hours ago, Demitri_C said: So you prefer a dictatorship country? Whether you like it or not you need a strong opposition to keep which ever party is in power in check. Could you imagine if the labour party dissolved after corbyn and you only had the tories? Its the same with Labour they could do what the hell they want and no one can do anything The last thing we need is a country like Russia, china or north korea where its like that and the same prime minister is in place for 20 years. Id pack ny bags and be out of here if thats what happened Honestly don’t think that would ever happen in UK. The people would not allow dictatorship and you’d end up with any two bob party throwing Labour or whoever else out of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: And VT loves this On a serious note do you think the older some people get the more Tory they get? Definitely agree they need to reshuffle the party and appeal to the masses again. This may be a case of moving more to the right though. There has been a link with age and conservatism for generations, but one of the main reasons for this is likely to be people collecting more assets, particularly getting on and up the housing ladder as they age, as well as earning more due to increased seniority, and people being more concerned about their pension as they age By doing practically nothing for the young and seeing the average age of a first time buyer increase by about a decade over the last 14 years, as well as torpedoing their reputation for being the party of economic stability, they may have helped break that cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Just now, Davkaus said: There has been a link with age and conservatism for generations, but one of the main reasons for this is likely to be people collecting more assets, particularly getting on and up the housing ladder as they age, as well as earning more due to increased seniority, and people being more concerned about their pension as they age By doing practically nothing for the young and seeing the average age of a first time buyer increase by about a decade over the last 14 years, as well as torpedoing their reputation for being the party of economic stability, they may have helped break that cycle Yes definitely this with getting more financially stable as you get older. Look after number one. People can be very fickle in their nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 7 Author Moderator Share Posted July 7 3 hours ago, Demitri_C said: So you prefer a dictatorship country? Whether you like it or not you need a strong opposition to keep which ever party is in power in check. Could you imagine if the labour party dissolved after corbyn and you only had the tories? Its the same with Labour they could do what the hell they want and no one can do anything The last thing we need is a country like Russia, china or north korea where its like that and the same prime minister is in place for 20 years. Id pack ny bags and be out of here if thats what happened An analysis that the Tories are done for isn’t in any way a desire for a dictatorship. But you’re right that a strong opposition is necessary. Personally I don’t think they are done for and I think they’ll be back sooner than some people think (sadly). But they’ll have to go through the process that Labour went through. And that’s understanding that the way to win general elections in the UK is from either centre left or centre right. You can put some bells and whistles on either of those positions, appropriate to the circumstances, but if you shoot off to a more extreme position you lose. At the moment the baby eaters are not sure whether they want to regroup around a frothing nutter, or a different frothing butter, somehow merge with Reform Ltd company (a subsidiary of MAGA inc.) or end their fever dream and join the rest of the human race. Once they’ve woken up, they’ll be back. But we’re never going to be anything like Russia, China, or North Korea, with kleptocratic leaders, murders of opponents, international shunning or leaders for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 17 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: And VT loves this On a serious note do you think the older some people get the more Tory they get? Definitely agree they need to reshuffle the party and appeal to the masses again. This may be a case of moving more to the right though. I think there was some truth in that, it no longer is. Thatcher's children are now reaching retirement age and those age groups even as they've got older have never really significantly shifted to voting Tory. There’s a number of reasons for that including socio-economic ones but there’s also the fact they grew up hating Tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 17 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: I honestly find this staggering that you’d end a friendship over this. Farage is Russian backed traitor scum. His Brexit was fantasy and tanked the nation. It's still taking down entire industries. Then look at how delighted Farage was at Kwarteng's mini budget, which again tanked the nation. I mean - Duh! What sort of nationalist votes for a traitor? A dismally thick nationalist. Then there's the racists. Generally life is better with less thick words removed and racists in it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 11 minutes ago, Xann said: Farage is Russian backed traitor scum. His Brexit was fantasy and tanked the nation. It's still taking down entire industries. Then look at how delighted Farage was at Kwarteng's mini budget, which again tanked the nation. I mean - Duh! What sort of nationalist votes for a traitor? A dismally thick nationalist. Then there's the racists. Generally life is better with less thick words removed and racists in it. You may have a point I still don’t get why people let other friends vote bother them. People are just different I guess. If we all agreed it would be pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 21 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: If we all agreed it would be pretty boring. Shooting ourselves in the foot has f**ked over your children, Ruge. You're right though, it's not boring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Danwichmann Posted July 7 Popular Post Share Posted July 7 24 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: You may have a point I still don’t get why people let other friends vote bother them. People are just different I guess. If we all agreed it would be pretty boring. I can disagree with my friends over whether spicy food is any good, where is the best place to go on holiday, cats are better than dogs and stuff like that. But if your opinions are along the lines of foreign people should be left to drown or shot on entry, then you're not going to be my friend (you not referring to poster, just a generic 'you'). 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, bickster said: A dictatorship you vote for? At no point have I said I want Labour in power for ever, in fact there are plenty of posts where I've said the opposite. There are other parties as pointed out above Comparing Labour being in power for a long period of time with a democratic mandate to Russia, China, N Korea is just silly and the kind of bollocks you read in some of the more reactionary right wing papers Did i say you said that or did i simply ask you a question? Not sure why you have to get so defensive on that. Its not a load of "bollocks" is it ? As the Conservativess and labour have been the main two parties and if you dont have a strong Conservative opposition or strong labour opposition then you will have that one party in place eveey year as reform lib dems etc have never ever been in power. You are talking some utter nonsense here. How is that right wing what i said? Show me in the last 30 years where a party thats not tory or labour thats been in power independently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 Just now, Demitri_C said: Its not a load of "bollocks" is it ? It absolutely is. Without any shred of doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: Honestly don’t think that would ever happen in UK. The people would not allow dictatorship and you’d end up with any two bob party throwing Labour or whoever else out of power. Exactly ruge - its not gonna happen. Whether this forum likes it or not you need a tory party or it ends up like russia or north korea where its always the same party in power. No thank you to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Just now, bickster said: It absolutely is. Without any shred of doubt You have really convinced me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, blandy said: An analysis that the Tories are done for isn’t in any way a desire for a dictatorship. But you’re right that a strong opposition is necessary. Personally I don’t think they are done for and I think they’ll be back sooner than some people think (sadly). But they’ll have to go through the process that Labour went through. And that’s understanding that the way to win general elections in the UK is from either centre left or centre right. You can put some bells and whistles on either of those positions, appropriate to the circumstances, but if you shoot off to a more extreme position you lose. At the moment the baby eaters are not sure whether they want to regroup around a frothing nutter, or a different frothing butter, somehow merge with Reform Ltd company (a subsidiary of MAGA inc.) or end their fever dream and join the rest of the human race. Once they’ve woken up, they’ll be back. But we’re never going to be anything like Russia, China, or North Korea, with kleptocratic leaders, murders of opponents, international shunning or leaders for life. You are right - the tories are not done. They have come back from this scenerio before and they will again. History tells us that. The likely scenerio will be labour in for 12 years ish the public gets fed up of them then tories get back. Just for the reckon i dont think we will end up like N KOREA etc all i was merely saying was if you dont have a strong opposition thats how the country becomes Scotland for example SNP has become the second party there now aftee labour cleared up there. Scotland needed that as well a strong opposition 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: Honestly don’t think that would ever happen in UK. The people would not allow dictatorship and you’d end up with any two bob party throwing Labour or whoever else out of power. "it would never happen here" is pretty much all it takes to allow things like that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 Just now, Demitri_C said: You have really convinced me There’s no point trying to be honest. Because if you can’t see that comparing us to Russia, China and N Korea because the Tory Party was rejected by the electorate in a democratic election then there’s no point. There’s nothing I can say that will convince you because it’s just so obviously wrong. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 I feel that thinking this is the death of the Tories is getting ahead of themselves. People tactically voted to get them out of power, this was their lowest point in ages due to unbelievable levels of corruption and incompetence, yet they still had 25% of the vote, add in Reform and they've got 40%. If they can sort their Reform problem out then they've got a lot of voters still. It'll also be easier for them by not being in power. The corruption and incompetence angle is reduced and now pointed at Labour to try and avoid. All the Tories have to do is sit back and wait for Labour not to fix the country. It'll take more than 5 years to undue all the problems of the last 14 year's and people have short memories. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 7 Author Moderator Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Just for the reckon i dont think we will end up like N KOREA etc all i was merely saying was if you dont have a strong opposition thats how the country becomes It doesn't though Dem. I mean when Blair won and the tories were routed, whatever people's views on policies and all that, there's no way the UK was remotely like N. Korea etc. Same when the evil witch won. Those places don't hold free and fair elections, they're not democracies, Mps and ministers there only lose their seats if the supreme leader decides they're a threat, or whatever. We have multiple parties quite openly and legally canvassing for votes and members and all that. In the places you mention, they don't. They lock up anyone not "onside" and have at absolute best "sham" allowed parties that are only allowed to exist to give a veneer of some sort of "scrutiny". Anyone else gets killed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Did i say you said that or did i simply ask you a question? Not sure why you have to get so defensive on that. Its not a load of "bollocks" is it ? As the Conservativess and labour have been the main two parties and if you dont have a strong Conservative opposition or strong labour opposition then you will have that one party in place eveey year as reform lib dems etc have never ever been in power. You are talking some utter nonsense here. How is that right wing what i said? Show me in the last 30 years where a party thats not tory or labour thats been in power independently? On The whole strong opposition thing, normally I'd agree. However the country is SO broken right now, with so much needing fixing, I don't mind a term where Labour can just go about it at will. Hopefully 4 years from now they've either done such a good job they'll just blow everyone away again, or if they're flagging they do get credible opposition. Right now though, I think it's actually a good thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 Hopefully Count Binface or Baked Bean Man can get their shit together for 2029. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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