bickster Posted September 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Whilst others refer to ‘multiculturalism’ as different cultural groups living parallel lives, never blending or interacting and ultimately clashing when they do happen to interact. Yes, there is a very common misconception about what multiculturalism actually is. In it's basest form, it is very much a challenge to Liberal Democracy as it challenges the equal representation / opportunity for all principal. There are an awful lot of people who talk about multiculturalism without actually understanding what it means What Braverman is saying isn't the attack people think it is, nor do they understand what they are defending A traditional liberal like Braverman would find Multiculturalism, with its ideas that under-represented cultural groupings should get extra assistance / protections etc very challenging. It's why the more the Tories have veered towards traditional liberalism the more opposed to multiculturalism they've become. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I don’t disagree It’s just that some people talk about ‘multiculturalism’ as being people with different backgrounds blending together and bringing different aspects of their culture to make a better, richer and more interesting society. Whilst others refer to ‘multiculturalism’ as different cultural groups living parallel lives, never blending or interacting and ultimately clashing when they do happen to interact. You've described successful multiculturalism in your first definition and failed multiculturalism with your second. I think for the most part in the UK the first is correct although a lot of right wingers have tried to make it seem otherwise to try to convince us the brown person who lives down the road is the cause of plenty of our woes. The Tories are just playing that game now as they need someone/something to blame for the mess they have made and damage they have caused so they create straw men. Last week it was the environment. They are lower than shark shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 27, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2023 17 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I don’t disagree It’s just that some people talk about ‘multiculturalism’ as being people with different backgrounds blending together and bringing different aspects of their culture to make a better, richer and more interesting society. Whilst others refer to ‘multiculturalism’ as different cultural groups living parallel lives, never blending or interacting and ultimately clashing when they do happen to interact. I know the differing interpretations - I've studied political science and taken an interest in it for a very long time. It's just that, in the case of Braverman, she knew exactly what message she wanted to send, and it isn't the one charitably given to her. She wanted to play to the Tory gallery that thinks leafy suburbs will be consumed by brown hordes, melting the war memorial in curry and doing voodoo rituals on the cricket green. Whilst being herself an example of why that mindset is **** evil. Nobody hearing her say 'multiculturalism has failed' was thinking 'oh yes clearly the liberal ideal is threatened by the thought that not everyone has a British shopkeeper mentality and therefore the country is doomed'. They're thinking it's an attack on having brown people be about - which they may agree with, or have issue with, either is good for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Every time Rishi Sunak opens his mouth the Conservative rating goes down 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Genie said: Every time Rishi Sunak opens his mouth the Conservative rating goes down He sounded OK and sane in the early days compared to what had been before but the party member loons have got to him and he's in survival mode now just bowing to their requirements which are at odds with 80% of the population. Essentially people are now seeing through the mask at what lies behind. Edited September 28, 2023 by sidcow 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 @bickster if you go into the deeper data on that poll, your predictions for the future of the Tories start to look back at you... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, sidcow said: He sounded OK and sane in the early days compared to what had been before but the party member loons have got to him and he's in survival mode now just bowing to their requirements which are at odds with 80% of the population. Essentially people are now seeing through the mask at what lies behind. The thing I don’t quite get, he’s incredibly wealthy so doesn’t need the job like most other people do. Trump got the big job over the pond and went “**** it, I’m doing it my way, if it goes tits up then so what, I’ll retire to one of mansions”. I expected a little more of that from Sunak. Obviously not the mentalness, but less pandering to those in the shadows who are pulling the strings. He doesn’t need to think about paying the bills or his career after PM but he’s still being whipped into doing and saying things he never really looks comfortable with (as he knows they are terrible for the UK). In short, he’s absolutely spineless. Edited September 28, 2023 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 minute ago, ml1dch said: if you go into the deeper data on that poll, your predictions for the future of the Tories start to look back at you... It's blindingly obvious to me. I'm just a crackpot amateur though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Just now, ml1dch said: @bickster if you go into the deeper data on that poll, your predictions for the future of the Tories start to look back at you... I’ve genuinely heard 13-14 year olds insult others by calling them a Tory. They also refer to badly timed, crashing attempts to win the football back as a Brexit tackle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: I’m short, he’s absolutely spineless. Are you Tommy Elphick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Just now, mjmooney said: Are you Tommy Elphick? I wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 28, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2023 Just now, Genie said: The thing I don’t quite get, he’s incredibly wealthy so doesn’t need the job like most other people do. Trump got the big job over the pond and went “**** it, I’m doing it my way, if it goes tits up then so what, I’ll retire to one of mansions”. Neither of them took the job for money - like you say they don't need it. Trump's having another go at being America King and Sunak's doing it because Ego, too. It's about status, to start with at least I guess. I think the baby eaters know they're gonna lose, they're just trying to keep hold of the whopper vote, by saying and doing whopper things. I guess part of Sunak's "thinking" might be that he doesn't want the loons to submit those letters they have, to hold yet another leader election. There's all kinds of rumours their dire polling suggests that they might try and get a different baby eater to be leader. But they're basically circling the drain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 The thing is, there’s about 15 to 20% of this country that are absolute right wing loons that are anti anything and everything. That appears to be the demographic the tories are out to 100% capture every single one of their votes. Burn more oil, burn trannies, burn the poor, burn the boats, burn the books, burn the nurses, get some brown people to burn the brown people, burn the wind turbines. Absolute relentless pursuit of the 15% of nut jobs. And its working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 28, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2023 Just now, chrisp65 said: And its working Only in so much as the whopper and throbber community, as we must refer to them, are angry happy. Everyone else is sort of gobsmacked at the lunacy and irrelevance to their lives and just waiting for a chance to hoof the evil bastards out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Only in so much as the whopper and throbber community, as we must refer to them, are angry happy. Everyone else is sort of gobsmacked at the lunacy and irrelevance to their lives and just waiting for a chance to hoof the evil bastards out. Yep, ‘working’ in that the 15% of ‘odd characters’ was previously hidden in 35% or so of various shades of blue. Having stripped themselves of the casual mild blue voter, it’s just the loons now, visible in all their gory glory. Obsessed with toilets and their right under Magna Carta to drive 4x4 diesels inside asthma wards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Genie said: The thing I don’t quite get, he’s incredibly wealthy so doesn’t need the job like most other people do. Trump got the big job over the pond and went “**** it, I’m doing it my way, if it goes tits up then so what, I’ll retire to one of mansions”. I expected a little more of that from Sunak. Obviously not the mentalness, but less pandering to those in the shadows who are pulling the strings. He doesn’t need to think about paying the bills or his career after PM but he’s still being whipped into doing and saying things he never really looks comfortable with (as he knows they are terrible for the UK). In short, he’s absolutely spineless. Politicians are survivalists by nature though. You don't get that far without drive and ambition beyond "just" earning money. It's the power and prestige and fighting it out to get to the top they thrive on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Having stripped themselves of the casual mild blue voter That's me. I'll never vote for them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 2 hours ago, ml1dch said: @bickster if you go into the deeper data on that poll, your predictions for the future of the Tories start to look back at you... Although the margin of error for subsets is quite glaring in this case, that's definitely something. Savanta did a dedicated VI poll for 18-25 year olds this week, and it's still utterly grim reading for the Tories (good) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 I'm not big into politics, but one thing I have noticed, that levelling up plan has been aload of b*******s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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