The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[chrisp65]

Tory politicians confuse themselves with being management geniuses.

Any fool left in charge can thieve all the money away.

Actually running the business, that needs skills these pricks don’t possess.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I think it’ll be welcomed by car makers as they’ll be able to sell petrol cars for longer and makes less pressure to be fully switched over.

I also think it’s designed to stop Chinese electric cars flooding the market. 

No. What car makers want is stability and not flip flopping between policies.

Chinese electric cars will flood the market anyway because people want cheap electric cars. If traditional ICE brands ease up on electrification they'll get left further and further behind by China.  It would be like continuing to invest in DVD manufacturing and sales after the advent of streaming. 

There's a reason we're not all driving round in Traction Engines. 

Still, I'm sure the oil and gas lobby are all giving themselves high fives today.  Job well done boys. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by sidcow

[chrisp65]

He’s also talking about HS2 maybe stopping at Manchester and maybe never actually going to central London.

There needs to be some sort of public inquiry on HS2. 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

He’s also talking about HS2 maybe stopping at Manchester and maybe never actually going to central London.

There needs to be some sort of public inquiry on The Tories 

FTFY

[ml1dch]

David Jones (Clwyd West) becomes the 48th Tory MP elected in 2019 to announce they're not standing again. One of the nasiest, most Brexity types there is, so a big good riddance on that one. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by ml1dch

[Genie]

18 minutes ago, sidcow said:

No. What car makers want is stability and not flip flopping between policies.

This is a change (but not actually a change, a continuation of today) coming into effect in 7 years time. They’re not exactly calling crisis meetings today because of it.

The “old” tech which there is still very strong demand for, and is bought and paid for, can be sold for 5 more years. It’s good news for the industry.

It gives them more time to develop EV technology and get the prices down to be more competitive with subsidised Chinese brands.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Genie

[Genie]

9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

He’s also talking about HS2 maybe stopping at Manchester and maybe never actually going to central London.

There needs to be some sort of public inquiry on HS2. 

Didn’t Boris Johnson have a similar “proper look” at HS2 not going into central London? 

I’m gonna make a bet the next PM also has the same look before kicking the can down the road.

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

Didn’t Boris Johnson have a similar “proper look” at HS2 not going into central London? 

I’m gonna make a bet the next PM also has the same look before kicking the can down the road.

In fairness its a tricky thing to get right, HS2.

You’ve got to make sure the big contracts are handed out. You’ve got to make sure your mates benefit from the compulsory purchase orders. But you can’t commit too much to actually doing it. 

[sidcow]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

This is a change (but not actually a change, a continuation of today) coming into effect in 7 years time. They’re not exactly calling crisis meetings today because of it.

The “old” tech which there is still very strong demand for, and is bought and paid for, can be sold for 5 more years. It’s good news for the industry.

It gives them more time to develop EV technology and get the prices down to be more competitive with subsidised Chinese brands.

 

Planning for changes to models and production facilities go way more in advance of that and take eye-wateringly huge amounts of investment.  Literally stupid amounts of time and money. They'll have huge teams of people setting unimaginably complex end expensive wheels in motion to work to dates.  All for nothing. 

They'll probably press ahead on existing timelines anyway because it will be too late to stop now, or cost more in the long run...... But now they won't have the guaranteed market they were planning to sell to. 

[sidcow]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

Didn’t Boris Johnson have a similar “proper look” at HS2 not going into central London? 

I’m gonna make a bet the next PM also has the same look before kicking the can down the road.

I understand Euston and the enormous frozen construction site is in Keir Starmers constituency. I can't see he'll be very popular leaving that scar on the landscape alone for a further 4 years. 

[Genie]

I can imagine the discussions around HS2.

Clever person who has all the facts and figures: It’s basically a terrible idea at this stage, it’s bankrupting the country of money that could be spent far, far better. The business case is getting weaker every additional year it gets delayed by.

Sunak: It would be embarrassing to change tack now though so let’s have another chat in 18 months time.

Clever person who has all the facts and figures: But won’t that be after the General ele…

Sunak: Bye bye then, safe journey home.

[bobzy]

31 minutes ago, sidcow said:

No. What car makers want is stability and not flip flopping between policies.

Certainly the reaction from Ford.

I imagine it's a mix, though.  Presumably we were quite attractive to the "electric car market" having such a deadline in place - what does that mean for investment now?  Does it just go elsewhere because it's (likely) cheaper?

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

He’s also talking about HS2 maybe stopping at Manchester and maybe never actually going to central London.

There needs to be some sort of public inquiry on Tory incompetence. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with HS2, it's the decision making flip flops that is the fault

If HS2 doesn't go to central London and Manchester its absolutely pointless

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I can imagine the discussions around HS2.

Clever person who has all the facts and figures: It’s basically a terrible idea at this stage, it’s bankrupting the country of money that could be spent far, far better. The business case is getting weaker every additional year it gets delayed by.

Sunak: It would be embarrassing to change tack now though so let’s have another chat in 18 months time.

Clever person who has all the facts and figures: But won’t that be after the General ele…

Sunak: Bye bye then, safe journey home.

It should be up and running now benefitting the nation for 1/4 of current estimated costs. 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Certainly the reaction from Ford.

I imagine it's a mix, though.  Presumably we were quite attractive to the "electric car market" having such a deadline in place - what does that mean for investment now?  Does it just go elsewhere because it's (likely) cheaper?

Well yes, Ford for example have already stopped making Mondeo and Fiesta and also have (or are about to) stop making The Focus as they are reconfiguring manufacturing facilities for Electric. So if @Genie wanted more evidence of the timescales there it is.

They can't now row back on that and start making Mondeo and Fiesta again for a few more years. The ships sailed. 

So that massive investment and they can't sell their ICE cars and they'll have ICE competition for their new EV'S. nice one Sunak, I bet they're delighted. 

[Genie]

9 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Planning for changes to models and production facilities go way more in advance of that and take eye-wateringly huge amounts of investment.  Literally stupid amounts of time and money. They'll have huge teams of people setting unimaginably complex end expensive wheels in motion to work to dates.  All for nothing. 

They'll probably press ahead on existing timelines anyway because it will be too late to stop now, or cost more in the long run...... But now they won't have the guaranteed market they were planning to sell to. 

Maybe you’re right actually. I thought that it would be seen as good news a ICE could run alongside developing EV’s to help fund it and then by 2035 we’re a generation or 2 further down the line and have closed the cost gap to ICE variants. Maybe it’s not the case and OEM’s will just defer the EV work (which would be a massive shame).

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with HS2, it's the decision making flip flops that is the fault

If HS2 doesn't go to central London and Manchester its absolutely pointless

It was never going north. I might be a lucky guesser but it never had the ring of truth about that from day 1. I reckon I’ve got posts in here from years ago saying it wouldn’t go north it would concentrate on getting people from the midlands to London.

What I hadn’t anticipated, was that it would get people from the Midlands, to just outside London.

That, is comedy genius and worth a tip of the hat if that turns out to be true.

[The Fun Factory]

31 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

He’s also talking about HS2 maybe stopping at Manchester and maybe never actually going to central London.

There needs to be some sort of public inquiry on HS2. 

Another month, another change in direction on HS2. Honest to god what an complete shitshow we are on national infrastructure. An utter and total embarrassment.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

It was never going north. I might be a lucky guesser but it never had the ring of truth about that from day 1. I reckon I’ve got posts in here from years ago saying it wouldn’t go north it would concentrate on getting people from the midlands to London.

What I hadn’t anticipated, was that it would get people from the Midlands, to just outside London.

That, is comedy genius and worth a tip of the hat if that turns out to be true.

All it needs now is for them to row back on the high speed part of HS2 for a full set.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said:

Another month, another change in direction on HS2. Honest to god what a complete shitshow we are on national infrastructure. An utter and total embarrassment.

It’s like the subject of Brexit, it just won’t go away for good reason.