The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

But does this matter?  

The EU might cut taxes or hand out fuel payments.  Which will cost billions. 

France will subsidise EDF which benefits all.  There's no red tape or extra administrative costs. 

The UK will help some of the population but not all.  There will be extra administration costs.  

I suggested it a couple of times, the Government should set the cap at sensible figure, then financially support the suppliers who need help. Rather than what we’ll get is varying support and complaints from millions of people.

[foreveryoung]

So Truss now wants to cut VAT by 5%. I'm no financier, but I cannot see that being a good move unless she wants to bankrupt the country into more debt. It won't make alot of difference to us surely.

Not a big fan of Sunak, but at least he knows a bit of maths.

[Mozzavfc]

3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

EDF made 860 million euros selling energy to the UK last year.

At least our government are helping  them cover some of their losses and taking away some of the burden to French taxpayers.

 

 

 

Just like how our extortionate train tickets help subsidise European trains, as all the franchise owners are European state transport companies

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So Truss now wants to cut VAT by 5%. I'm no financier, but I cannot see that being a good move unless she wants to bankrupt the country into more debt. It won't make alot of difference to us surely.

Not a big fan of Sunak, but at least he knows a bit of maths.

It’ll fuel inflation too. 

Its absolutely mental.

[bickster]

41 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So Truss now wants to cut VAT by 5%. I'm no financier, but I cannot see that being a good move unless she wants to bankrupt the country into more debt. It won't make alot of difference to us surely.

Not a big fan of Sunak, but at least he knows a bit of maths.

VAT cuts are likely to be just extra profit for retailers. Retailers and suppliers will just put the price up stating increased costs as the reason.

We’re back to this not being a household budget again. The government will have to issue gilts or something to stop people dying of cold, pissing around with VAT won’t do diddly squat to help.

[Genie]

Here’s my prediction. 
Truss becomes PM and announces her plan for the energy crisis. 

It’ll be a terrible, terrible plan that will get widespread criticism. She’ll initially dig in to say she won’t change and people just need to sort it out themselves, but then will buckle under pressure to come up with something different. Along the way she’ll be blaming the EU but will change her plan to be less shit, but still shit. At around the third attempt she’ll be closer to what experts told her to do in the first place but by delaying its now more of an issue than if she’d done it from the beginning.

By Christmas there’s noises that back bench MP’s are getting annoyed at her leadership.

[chrisp65]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

Here’s my prediction. 
Truss becomes PM and announces her plan for the energy crisis. 

It’ll be a terrible, terrible plan that will get widespread criticism. She’ll initially dig in to say she won’t change and people just need to sort it out themselves, but then will buckle under pressure to come up with something different. Along the way she’ll be blaming the EU but will change her plan to be less shit, but still shit. At around the third attempt she’ll be closer to what experts told her to do in the first place but by delaying its now more of an issue than if she’d done it from the beginning.

By Christmas there’s noises that back bench MP’s are getting annoyed at her leadership.

You left out the bit where she blames main stream media for misrepresenting her original plan, which was a good plan, but which she has now changed because it was mis reported.

We’ve got roughly 18 to 24 months of enduring a pound shop tribute act to Strokey McStroke Face.

Enjoy the ride fellas.

 

 

 

[ml1dch]

24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We’ve got roughly 18 to 24 months of enduring a pound shop tribute act to Strokey McStroke Face.

I reckon that her not lasting six months is pretty underpriced. Once she's in, it's MPs who will control if she stays there. She was only first choice for 14% of them. And with the members, she's only popular compared to Sunak. She was well behind Badenoch and Mordaunt in member polling. 

You've then got two camps (Johnson / Sunak) plotting to bring her down quickly, and the calculation for the MPs early in 2023 becomes whether they feel more or less confident going into a General Election with Truss or rolling the dice again. If she polls badly (and with the predicted winter troubles you'd think she will) I can see 50 or so letters going in sooner rather than later. 

[MakemineVanilla]

15 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

So Truss now wants to cut VAT by 5%. I'm no financier, but I cannot see that being a good move unless she wants to bankrupt the country into more debt. It won't make alot of difference to us surely.

Not a big fan of Sunak, but at least he knows a bit of maths.

The Bank of England has increased interest rates to control inflation, according to their website, and they claim that it is supply which is causing inflation.

Truss wants to reduce VAT which will increase demand.

One solution looks like the remedy and the other looks like a gesture meant to create personal political advantage.

I can't decided which is which.

 

 

[Genie]

There’s a real risk of recession, Liz Truss’s plan would likely stave off recession in the short term but make inflation worse. It’s kicking the inflation can down the road.

The other major economies are addressing inflation now as it is the bigger threat.

LT wants to ignore it and no doubt do a “Boris” and spend the next few months talking about how the economy is doing better than the other G7, before it inevitably implodes.

[Mozzavfc]

Half of all Tory voters now want energy to be nationalised. 

I wonder if there is a way to harness Thatcher turning into her grave to solve the energy crisis 

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

There’s a real risk of recession, Liz Truss’s plan would likely stave off recession in the short term but make inflation worse. It’s kicking the inflation can down the road.

The other major economies are addressing inflation now as it is the bigger threat.

LT wants to ignore it and no doubt do a “Boris” and spend the next few months talking about how the economy is doing better than the other G7, before it inevitably implodes.

Stagflation = a stagnating economy plus high inflation.

It looks like Boris's sanctions on Russia are turning into an act of seppuku.

Everything might be turning to shit but at least Boris retains his honour.

Persuading the West to destroy itself might be the greatest geopolitical strategy ever.

 

[bickster]

48 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

t looks like Boris's sanctions on Russia are turning into an act of seppuku.

They aren't Johnson’s sanctions, they are to use that silly term The West's sanctions. 
It doesn’t matter who the PM was at the time, those sanctions would be happening. If the UK hadn't applied the sanctions the situation would actually be worse. The energy crisis would still be here AND our Allies may well even be applying other sanctions against us, both at a governmental level and a personal level

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

17 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I can't decided which is which.

Neither,  they are both utterly stupid and won't achieve much in the big scheme of things.

Rate rise against 11 % inflation,  its created globally so I don't understand.  

Cut VAT by 5%,  primarily chosen by her becasue its sounds good but her main concern is that business still get their invoice paid so putting money in no ones pocket.  Like magic.

Business also get to keep their estimates this year with goals still achieved and bonusses paid.

[MakemineVanilla]

13 hours ago, bickster said:

They aren't Johnson’s sanctions, they are to use that silly term The West's sanctions. 
It doesn’t matter who the PM was at the time, those sanctions would be happening. If the UK hadn't applied the sanctions the situation would actually be worse. The energy crisis would still be here AND our Allies may well even be applying other sanctions against us, both at a governmental level and a personal level

 

Unfortunately you are right and it is increasingly obvious that the UK can't do anything independently, and for just about every issue we might care about we just get in lock-step and do the exact same as other nations.

The logical conclusion to draw from this is that no party can make a difference and voting is futile.

[Genie]

Ducking the high profile interviews. 

Quote

Liz Truss has pulled out of a BBC One interview with Nick Robinson that was due to air on Tuesday evening.

Ms Truss' team said she could no longer spare the time for the one-on-one programme, the BBC said in a statement.

Rishi Sunak, Ms Truss' rival for the Conservative leadership, was interviewed by Robinson on 10 August.

The ballot of Tory party members closes on Friday, with the winner set to be announced next Monday, 5 September.

In its statement, the BBC added: "We regret that it has not been possible to do an in-depth interview with both candidates, despite having reached agreement to do so."

Robinson said on Twitter he was "disappointed and frustrated" that his scheduled interview with Ms Truss - widely considered to be the front-runner to become prime minister - had been cancelled.

Things are certainly going to get worse before they get better aren’t they.

Link

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Unfortunately you are right and it is increasingly obvious that the UK can't do anything independently, and for just about every issue we might care about we just get in lock-step and do the exact same as other nations.

The logical conclusion to draw from this is that no party can make a difference and voting is futile.

There is nothing logical about that conclusion, Britain's place in the World is not the only thing a party can affect. The UK Government should be able to influence our allies and voting for a paticular party is the population chosing which way they want that influence to be used.

[MakemineVanilla]

31 minutes ago, bickster said:

There is nothing logical about that conclusion, Britain's place in the World is not the only thing a party can affect. The UK Government should be able to influence our allies and voting for a paticular party is the population chosing which way they want that influence to be used.

You've got more faith than me in a system which seems more about the theatrics and pageantry of democracy than an actual reality.

I think that the obsession with slagging off the different personalities by either side, is just a denial of the reality and a way of pretending that somehow the system would work, if only my people were in power.

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

You've got more faith than me in a system which seems more about the theatrics and pageantry of democracy than an actual reality.

I think that the obsession with slagging off the different personalities by either side, is just a denial of the reality and a way of pretending that somehow the system would work, if only my people were in power.

I have no faith in "the system." We only live in a quasi-democracy at present. But the system as you call it is only as good as the people we allow to put themselves forward to represent both the people and the system. It is as broken as it is because the people allow it to be.

Having said that, I'd still rather this current system with all it's many flaws than a one party dictatorship. I want our system of democracy to be much changed but I wouldn't describe voting to be a futile exercise either because it clearly isn't

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

I have no faith in "the system." We only live in a quasi-democracy at present. But the system as you call it is only as good as the people we allow to put themselves forward to represent both the people and the system. It is as broken as it is because the people allow it to be.

Having said that, I'd still rather this current system with all it's many flaws than a one party dictatorship. I want our system of democracy to be much changed but I wouldn't describe voting to be a futile exercise either because it clearly isn't

As Churchill said: "Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others".