chrisp65 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 They couldn’t be handling HS2 much more perfectly could they? No official announcement just a repeat mantra that they won’t talk about speculation, when they could put it to bed in seconds with a yes or a no. Instead they are letting it be the dominant issue drowning out their conference. The tories are cancelling the Manchester leg of HS2, they just don’t want to admit it until they’ve checked out of town. Brilliant. Keep it up ladz. The only thing that would make it even funnier, is if after conference they then say they are going to keep it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 So does this mean we're not getting a northern powerhouse? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 It’s not going to Manchester, it’s not going into central London… I really want them to say it’ll be regular speed trains *by them, I mean everybody else but them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, villan95 said: Hopefully an outlier It certainly has the feel of an outlier All fieldwork done in these in the same period (inc the Yougov one which I missed the date off) Pollster Con Lab LD Grn RUK Con lead Fieldwork WeThink 27% (-1) 47% (+2) 10% (+1) 5% (-1) 7% (+1) -20% 28-29/9 Opinium 29% (+3) 39% (-2) 12% (+1) 7% (nc) 7% (-1) -10% 27-29/9 Techne 27% (+1) 45% (nc) 10% (-1) 6% (-1) 6% (+1) -18% 27-28/9 YouGov 24% (-3) 45% (+2) 11% (+1) 7% (nc) 8% (nc) -21% Mark Pack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted October 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Davkaus said: Where's Truss making her speech, Sesame Street? Nobody gives a **** you ridiculous failure. "Today's episode is brought to you by the letters V, O, I and D" Edited October 2, 2023 by one_ian_taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, villan95 said: Hopefully an outlier Seven bin ban bounce 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, bickster said: It certainly has the feel of an outlier All fieldwork done in these in the same period (inc the Yougov one which I missed the date off) Pollster Con Lab LD Grn RUK Con lead Fieldwork WeThink 27% (-1) 47% (+2) 10% (+1) 5% (-1) 7% (+1) -20% 28-29/9 Opinium 29% (+3) 39% (-2) 12% (+1) 7% (nc) 7% (-1) -10% 27-29/9 Techne 27% (+1) 45% (nc) 10% (-1) 6% (-1) 6% (+1) -18% 27-28/9 YouGov 24% (-3) 45% (+2) 11% (+1) 7% (nc) 8% (nc) -21% Mark Pack Think I read one of Twitter psephologists saying that the underlying data is pretty similar to all the others, but because of the way that Opinium weigh the "undecided" it produces different results on voting intention percentages. So it's methodology rather than data. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2023 6 hours ago, Genie said: Liz Truss is to use her speech to call for tax cuts, That's a great idea.. She should run for PM and try to get that to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Think I read one of Twitter psephologists saying that the underlying data is pretty similar to all the others, but because of the way that Opinium weigh the "undecided" it produces different results on voting intention percentages. So it's methodology rather than data. Yeah, I also think most of them are over sizing Greens and possibly reform plus under sizing LibDems. People are answering their preferred party right now with no reference to their own constituency and how they'll actually vote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Genie said: The problem is that the public perception of HS2 is that it’s some luxury or nice to have bit of infrastructure. Not something for a country with record levels of debt and tax. How many times have we read about “it’s not worth it just to get to London half an hour sooner”. This is why it’s constantly under investigation. If it was a hospital going over budget then it wouldn’t have the same kind of interest because we accept that we need the hospital. The feeling amongst the general public (rightly or wrongly) is we don’t really need HS2 so let’s cut our losses. It's only this bloody country where public transport is so hard to get going and you get this constant value for money argument. Everywhere else (except USA) understands it's value way beyond it's cost I terms of the efficiency of the Economy and leveling up for people. It's a very right wing view to criticise public transport, and most of the publics attitude to this is driven by constant criticism of any kind of transport spending in the right wing press that forms public opinion. Put it this way, if you're anti HS2 / Anti Public Transport, you're falling into line with the thoughts of the Tory throbbers. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, sidcow said: That's a great idea.. She should run for PM and try to get that to happen. What’s the worst that can happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: It's only this bloody country where public transport is so hard to get going and you get this constant value for money argument. Everywhere else (except USA) understands it's value way beyond it's cost I terms of the efficiency of the Economy and leveling up for people. It's a very right wing view to criticise public transport, and most of the publics attitude to this is driven by constant criticism of any kind of transport spending in the right wing press that forms public opinion. Put it this way, if you're anti HS2 / Anti Public Transport, you're falling into line with the thoughts of the Tory throbbers. How have you leaped from discussing HS2 being massively over budget and late to being racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Think I read one of Twitter psephologists saying that the underlying data is pretty similar to all the others, but because of the way that Opinium weigh the "undecided" it produces different results on voting intention percentages. So it's methodology rather than data. Survation seem to have been the best pollster in recent times. Pretty sure they got the last few elections to almost pin point accuracy. Edited October 2, 2023 by villan95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2023 36 minutes ago, Genie said: How have you leaped from discussing HS2 being massively over budget and late to being racist? Where did I do that? Right wing ideology is to rubbish investment in public transport is what I said, which is why the right wing press attack any form of public transport investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Where did I do that? Right wing ideology is to rubbish investment in public transport is what I said, which is why the right wing press attack any form of public transport investment. You can criticise or discuss something and not be right wing or a “Tory party throbber”. They are entirely unconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Genie said: You can criticise or discuss something and not be right wing or a “Tory party throbber”. They are entirely unconnected. I didn't say you were. I said your thoughts align with their thoughts. And it's a bit of brainwashing from the constant, never ending criticism in the press. For example literally every press report since it was announced will mention "controversial". This before any kind of changes of budget. **** me, in what planet is it controversial to build public transport? But that's the message reinforced over and over and over. Never ever any reference to he MULTITUDE of benefits, just the constant reference to shaving 10 minutes off the journey to London being the ONLY thing it's about. Who do you think is driving this narrative? Other countries build public infrastructure without this constant criticism and value for money argument because it's value for the average man. That's why Europe is covered in comprehensive high speed rail and other parts of the world. All. Over Europe small cities have comprehensive tram networks. Lack of it it one reason why The UK is inefficient as a nation. Yes we should build HS2 in its full original format AND build Northern Rail AND build a comprehensive tram network in every major city. This is something that shouldn't even be questioned. Birmingham SHOULD have an horrendously expensive Underground Railway system, but the UK would never invest in that. We can't even get a proper tram system. It's all linked the reason why the UK is so poor at public transport spending, right wing throbbers and the subsequent brainwashing of the public attitude by right wing press. Edited October 2, 2023 by sidcow 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: I didn't say you were. I said your thoughts align with their thoughts. And it's a bit of brainwashing from the constant, never ending criticism in the press. For example literally every press report since it was announced will mention "controversial". This before any kind of changes of budget. **** me, in what planet is it controversial to build public transport? But that's the message reinforced over and over and over. Never ever any reference to he MULTITUDE of benefits, just the constant reference to shaving 10 minutes off the journey to London being the ONLY thing it's about. Who do you think is driving this narrative? Other countries build public infrastructure without this constant criticism and value for money argument because it's value for the average man. That's why Europe is covered in comprehensive high speed rail and other parts of the world. Lack of it it one reason why The UK is inefficient as a nation. Yes we should build HS2 in its full original format AND build Northern Rail AND build a comprehensive tram network in every major city. This is something that shouldn't even be questioned. Birmingham SHOULD have an horrendously expensive Underground Railway system, but the UK would never invest in that. We can't even get a proper tram system. It's all linked the reason why the UK is so poor at public transport spending, right wing throbbers and the subsequent brainwashing of the public attitude by right wing press. I don’t personally have a massively strong view on HS2 either way to be honest. I do disagree that it’s right wing media talking it down. It gets talked down because it’s ludicrously over budget and every time they check where they are against the budget it’s gone up a few more billion so is out of control. Then add up the compulsory purchases, the corruption, the scar on the land, the historical forests and wildlife that have been destroyed etc, this is why it gets talked down, not because the mail are trying to make something out of nothing. Every news outlet has been publishing the chaos of the project from the start. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) I mean can HS2 be canceled to Manchester at this stage? Utter madness. They went through all of this 2 years ago. They have already spent 600 million to pay off John Bishop already. Either Sunak will make it a threat to campaign on for the next election, thus forcing Labour to support it, or he will backtrack and say he was only going to scrap the Eutson terminus. Not going to Manchester is inconceivable and makes the entire project an utter and total waste of time. We couldn't be trusted on any big infrastructure project ever again. Edited October 2, 2023 by The Fun Factory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 You don't let them near anything you care about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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