The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[mjmooney]

Quote

Former home secretary Priti Patel has appeared to hit out at the Conservative party's leadership after the Tories suffered heavy local election losses last week.

Ms Patel spoke as she and several high-profile, Boris Johnson-backing MPs prepare to attend a conference pledging to restore democracy to the Conservative grassroots. 

The Conservative Democratic Organisation conference in Bournemouth is the first such event for the campaigning group, which was set up in the aftermath of Mr Johnson’s removal from office and amid anger at the installation of Rishi Sunak as prime minister without membership approval.

The group is backed by Tory peer and donor Lord Cruddas and organised by Brexiteer David Campbell Bannerman, with former cabinet ministers Nadine Dorries, Priti Patel and Jacob Rees-Mogg all expected to be among the star turns at Saturday’s event.

The organisation has repeatedly insisted it is not focused on bringing back Mr Johnson, but speakers at the conference do include several of his most prominent backers.

ITVX

 

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, Paul33 said:

The GE will be won - as always - by the party that pitches the most tents in the middle ground. It may be a largely silent majority but the majority of voters are middle ground voters as Corbyn found out ..... we are not an extreme left or right country albeit the noisy extremists might have you believe that.

I'm not sure that's true - the nation voted for an extreme economic experiment in Thatcher and were then persuaded that it was the new middle over the course of the next ten to thirty years by a corporate press. The GE will be won by the party that most matches the middle ground that financial power wants, money creates and defines orthodoxy in politics, voters don't, voters learn that orthodoxy as its fed to them by a complicit media..

[Hobsons Choice]

55 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure that's true - the nation voted for an extreme economic experiment in Thatcher and were then persuaded that it was the new middle over the course of the next ten to thirty years by a corporate press. The GE will be won by the party that most matches the middle ground that financial power wants, money creates and defines orthodoxy in politics, voters don't, voters learn that orthodoxy as its fed to them by a complicit media..

I know quite a bit of the economic middle that will be massively pissed off that the party they thought would look after them, completely crashed the economy in two weeks under Truss, and will now be realising that Brexit was even more of an economic disaster than they thought.

The two sides of the coin as I see it are:

A party that might damage the economy (Labour), versus a party that actually did break the economy (Tories).

No one has voted for the changes the last two PMs have brought in, and it's so far from what people thought they were voting for in 2019 I can see this being an absolute landslide for Labour.

[Genie]

5 hours ago, bickster said:

 I think that’s the second poll out with fieldwork since the local elections and they both show Labour up / Tories down

Importantly for Labour, tipping over 50%

[bickster]

33 minutes ago, Genie said:

Importantly for Labour, tipping over 50%

Word of caution; that poll is Omnisys and they have had Labour consistently higher than any other pollster

It's the rises (and falls) that are important right now, regardless of the actual numbers, the trend of recent polls is that the gap between the two main parties is widening again.

Also a correction, one pollster (Redfield and Wilton) actually has Labour dropping by -4 since the Local Elections but it's something of an odd outlier because they also have the LibDems on 16% which is an outlier well above the margin of error

[Paul33]

Polls are largely irrelevant at this stage in terms of voter intent at the back end of next year. By then, we COULD have an end to the Ukraine war, end to the resulting energy crisis, end of high inflation and there could be a general upbeat feel good vibe in the country. Not saying that will happen but if it does, expect it to influence voting !

Remember also that at some point, Labour has to switch from headline intents to actual costed policies which is when it usually goes wrong for them. At the moment they are ducking out of detail which gives them an easy ride against a party having to make detailed decisions. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Paul33

[bickster]

Should be a great week for Tory infighting ahead

We've got the nutty wing of the party already talking about giving Graham Brady letters, we've got the Boris Johnson Trojan Horse AKA the Conservative Democracy conference for all the Bojo fans like Mad Nads, Patel and JRM, then at the same time the nutters are having a Tea Party style conference too

Can't wait, pass the popcorn, this'll convince the country that there's stability in the Tory Party

And the idea that the current polling isn't relevant to an election that is at best 16 months away is quite frankly, very silly. If the election is any later than 16 months away, the Tories will not win it (and won't be close to winning it either). You've got Tories briefing that the gap is reducing when actually the opposite is true

Red Wall Tories want levelling up to actually happen (deluded idiots, like it was ever part of the plan)

The Nutters want tax cuts (it seems they've forgotten what happened to Truss/Kwarteng)

The Johnsonites want Johnson (yeah I know)

And the remaining centrists will all be bald very soon.

Even the nutters are arguing among themselves

They are making the Labour Party seem united by comparison

Meanwhile traditional Tory voters (not members) are voting for the LibDems and are unrepentant about doing so

[Genie]

As @bickster says, it’s brewing nicely. This is what Patel had to say about her own party

Quote

Former Home Secretary Priti Patel has blamed "those in power and control" of the Conservative Party for their heavy local election losses in a speech.

Ms Patel said she was sorry that it was "errors and mistakes sometimes of us in Westminster and our actions that have cost our party dearly".

She was among several high-profile Tory MPs who spoke to the Conservative Democratic Organisation, a new grassroots pro-Boris Johnson group.

The Tory Party said it had no comment.

She told the group's conference in Bournemouth: "Some parts of Westminster and our colleagues have done a better job of damaging our party than the opposition, the left wing campaign groups, the civil service, which we all struggle with day in day out and even I'm afraid, some of those in the media that want to distort and make life difficult for us".

Proper Tory civil war incoming.

Link

I’ll never understand the hold people like Johnson and Trump have on their parties. There’s a million fact based reasons why they are a disaster but they have people continuing to back them. 

[Demitri_C]

10 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I know quite a few on the Corbynite left wing of the Labour party, and they vehemently hate Starmer, probably even more than they hate the Tories. 

Im curious why ? Whats their reasoning.?

[mjmooney]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Im curious why ? Whats their reasoning.?

They think he's hardly better than the Tories, not a proper socialist. They want commitment to full nationalisation of utilities and transport, massive investment in the NHS, end to student tuition fees, rejoin the EU, nuclear disarmament, etc., etc., even if that means losing the general election! 

Personally, I want many of those things, too. But I'm pragmatic enough to want the Tories out as the main priority, rather than perpetuating a Labour civil war. 

[ml1dch]

On 28/04/2023 at 13:37, bickster said:

I see the utter dimwit David Davis has managed to be right for the third time in his career in calling for the need for voter ID to be pushed back in case hundreds of thousands of people are denied a legitimate vote. Yes, his motivation maybe that the Tories will f*** themselves over with this policy but he's at least semi-correct again.

 

 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

 

 

Shit, I feel dirty that JRM just agreed with me

[Seat68]

Just now, bickster said:

Shit, I feel dirty that JRM just agreed with me

This explains a lot, I saw in a post by you yesterday or the day before you used the word conservative, that clearly makes you a Conservative and now here you are agreeing with JRM.

[Genie]

9 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

 

 

He’s also deflecting from the fact they mainly got a trouncing because people have had enough of them. I’m sure the lack of voter ID was only a minor factor.

[blandy]

On 13/05/2023 at 11:03, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure that's true - the nation voted for an extreme economic experiment in Thatcher and were then persuaded that it was the new middle over the course of the next ten to thirty years by a corporate press. The GE will be won by the party that most matches the middle ground that financial power wants, money creates and defines orthodoxy in politics, voters don't, voters learn that orthodoxy as its fed to them by a complicit media..

That's one take. It's not mine. I mean I get the thought and stuff..it's just a bit too world weary and cynical for me. I don't think people voted for "an extreme economic experiment" in Thatcher - more against the fairly dire circumstances at the time around (and this may resonate) financial crises, strikes, loads of stuff not working....blah blah. We got, because of the big majority, horrible government as a consequence, but "we" didn't vote in a kind of "that's what I want, to be shafted by the witch" kind of way.

I also don't think the middle ground is set by "financial power" - I almost think the opposite, in fact. To me, almost by definition, financial power and corporations and stuff are on one extreme (in the main) - they want unregulated, unrestricted, freedom to do their thing. On the other end of that rope are environmentalists, Unions, Public bodies, Charities...blah blah and the middle ground is the majority of the population looking at the two lots pulling on the rope and not liking either - so they vote for the party that will stop the fury, really.

And finally "voters learn that orthodoxy as its fed to them by a complicit media" - Again, I get the sentiment, but it's bit like "everyone else is stupid and just media led sheeple". They're not. Like with football fans, you can talk to a fan and think they're an idiot, but you look at a football crowd, or a club's fans overall and they mostly get whether the manager/players/owners are good 'uns or wrong 'uns. Same with voters - whatever the media says about the tories now, people know they're words removed, overall.

[Hobsons Choice]

44 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

 

 

Hang on, did Dark Lord Rhys-Mogg just admit to gerrymandering? Why isn't that bigger news? 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Why isn't that bigger news? 

It's fairly hot off the press. He only said it today at his Pro-Boris sorry National Conservatism Conference

[Genie]

2 hours ago, ml1dch said:

 

 

It seems like the quote above has been twisted slightly, although the overall message is similar. 

When he talks about jerrymadering it is in relation to Labour’s idea to allow EU citizens to vote, but then tags on the bit about them finding out about voter ID.

Quote

Speaking at a conference for Conservatives in London, he accused Labour of "gerrymandering" - fixing rules to gain electoral advantage - by potentially extending voting rights to some EU citizens if they enter government.

He told delegates Labour's idea was "particularly silly," adding: "Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding that their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare I say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections.

bbc

[bickster]

23 minutes ago, Genie said:

When he talks about jerrymadering it is in relation to Labour’s idea to allow EU citizens to vote, but then tags on the bit about them finding out about voter ID.

Neither of which are gerrymandering anyway, gerrymandering relates to the manipulation of election boundaries and nothing else. He's a prick and as usual uses words that he doesn't know the meaning of

[Wainy316]