bickster Posted March 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2023 I hope he does get off with it. Just another torpedo in the side of the Tory Party's hull. It's bad enough for them that Partygate is back in the news but if he gets off the outrage will be deafening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, bickster said: I hope he does get off with it. Just another torpedo in the side of the Tory Party's hull. It's bad enough for them that Partygate is back in the news but if he gets off the outrage will be deafening 100% People will see it as him getting away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, blandy said: That's the bit, specifically - He claims they have no right to do that. Their remit does not extend to them deciding what their scope is. And while I don't blame him at all for making that argument, if they have decided that they can find against him on that basis, and proceed to do so, the argument that he is making doesn't really help him much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 bbc What next, yes I was doing 150mph but it wasn’t intentional or reckless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 21, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, ml1dch said: And while I don't blame him at all for making that argument, if they have decided that they can find against him on that basis, and proceed to do so, the argument that he is making doesn't really help him much. Until it comes to any vote in Parliament on it (any punishment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 It’s a hell of a defence ‘I wasn’t lying, I was simply too disinterested and too incompetent to understand the laws and the guidance I had put in place’. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) The headlines seem to be that he accepts he lied/mislead MP’s The little caveat at the end won’t wash… will it? Edited March 21, 2023 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, blandy said: Until it comes to any vote in Parliament on it (any punishment). I don't think it will at all. I expect that every non-Tory is going to vote for whatever sanction the PC decide on (if any). So that just leaves the Tories. Sunak has already said there will be no whipping on the matter, so it really just depends how many Tories can be arsed to drag themselves into the chamber to vote. And I'd be surprised if there are many of them invested enough in Johnson's political future to be that bothered about committee overreach when deciding which way to vote, if they even do. At the very least, it's going to come well below their own political future in their hierarchy of needs, and I think a big chunk of them will simply decide that they will have Important Constituency Work to do on the day of any vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 21, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2023 59 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I don't think it will at all. I expect that every non-Tory is going to vote for whatever sanction the PC decide on (if any). So that just leaves the Tories. Sunak has already said there will be no whipping on the matter, so it really just depends how many Tories can be arsed to drag themselves into the chamber to vote. And I'd be surprised if there are many of them invested enough in Johnson's political future to be that bothered about committee overreach when deciding which way to vote, if they even do. At the very least, it's going to come well below their own political future in their hierarchy of needs, and I think a big chunk of them will simply decide that they will have Important Constituency Work to do on the day of any vote. That seems reasonable. I wonder though - Labour and the other parties - presumably also a free vote. How many of them will turn up? My thinking was that there are a core of devotees of Bunter, a handful of tories that can't stand him and then a load that just (as you imply) wish it would all go away as they don't want to be seen either supporting him, or crucifying him. If there are (and it is an "if") reasons not to do him over (like genuine questions over whether the Inquiry has stepped outside its remit) then more will not turn up/abstain on the basis that they don't need to be seen to be ending his career. I think he'll get away with a ticking off at most. Maybe have to say sorry again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, blandy said: That seems reasonable. I wonder though - Labour and the other parties - presumably also a free vote. How many of them will turn up? My thinking was that there are a core of devotees of Bunter, a handful of tories that can't stand him and then a load that just (as you imply) wish it would all go away as they don't want to be seen either supporting him, or crucifying him. If there are (and it is an "if") reasons not to do him over (like genuine questions over whether the Inquiry has stepped outside its remit) then more will not turn up/abstain on the basis that they don't need to be seen to be ending his career. I think he'll get away with a ticking off at most. Maybe have to say sorry again. Yup, reckon that's spot on. The Tory majority on the committee means that I think they'll settle on the result that causes the least amount of drama for the Government. And that result = guilty of what he's been accused of, but with a sanction that just closes the whole thing down permanently e.g a five day suspension and then everything is forgotten about. The last thing Sunak needs is the world's media following Johnson round the by-election campaign trail for two weeks. And if it's that, it'll probably go through on the nod, because nobody will care enough. If I've got that wrong, and they go for the ten days / enough to trigger the recall petition then I reckon every Labour / Lib Dem / SNP MP will be there bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on the day of the vote to screw him over. And there won't be nearly enough Tories to care enough to stop them from winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I’m really curious about the language being used, maybe someone can explain. It’s around the use of the word “recklessly”. Ive heard of people driving vehicles recklessly. Waving pointy objects around recklessly. Going into a tackle recklessly. I’ve never heard of someone lying recklessly. Not that I want anyone to think I’m some of kind of Johnson fanboy. I just don’t know how you lie in a reckless fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I’m really curious about the language being used, maybe someone can explain. It’s around the use of the word “recklessly”. Ive heard of people driving vehicles recklessly. Waving pointy objects around recklessly. Going into a tackle recklessly. I’ve never heard of someone lying recklessly. Not that I want anyone to think I’m some of kind of Johnson fanboy. I just don’t know how you lie in a reckless fashion. I think that's it's to cover off the stupidity argument, because they're not saying he lied (narrator: he lied), they're saying he misled. So you either did it deliberately (you lied), or you did it by accident but you were "reckless" in not finding out whether you were misleading. If you didn't realise that a long weekend with four prostitutes and a bin bag of coke* wasn't permitted by the Covid regulations, you don't get to use your ignorance as a get-out clause. *disclaimer: an absurd example to demonstrate the point. I'd never dream of suggesting that this is a tableau that any Tory MP or Prime Minister would find themselves a part of. Edited March 21, 2023 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Was very worried that the VT outage would mean no Partygate committee match thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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sidcow Posted March 22, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, ml1dch said: Ignorance of the law is no excuse is a long established principle. Edited March 22, 2023 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I hope one of the MP’s asks him if he really is so pathetic that he lodges as defence of “nobody told me” when he was the **** Prime Minister breaching the rules he has only just created. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 He just said: If it was obviously wrong to me then it was also obviously wrong to many other people including the current Prime Minister If he’s going down he’s going to take everyone else with him it seems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Genie said: I hope one of the MP’s asks him if he really is so pathetic that he lodges as defence of “nobody told me” when he was the **** Prime Minister breaching the rules he has only just created. I'd be shocked if Harriet Harman (A KC) didn't ask him if nobody else will. Worth saying though that committee is made up of 4 Tories, 2 Labour and 1 SNP. One of those Tories needs to turn though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Actually so bored I am watching this party gate thing on TV. Bumbling Boris the Buffoon appears to me to be struggling at this meeting, with his waffling and bluster not fooling anyone at this meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I watched his opening gambit which was 99% bullshit. I’ll tune back in soon to hopefully see him being torn to shreds and shown up for what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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