bickster Posted March 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I'm not sure why people, like myself, who admittedly want asylum seekers who are illegally put in rubber dingies by criminal gangs, risking their own lives and the lives of their kids stopped, are being insinuated a racists. It's actually getting a bit of trate on here, like differing opinions on these type of subjects, without being arsed to back it up, then you must be racist, homophobic, hate trans, etc etc etc......., Lets just state fact, so people know I'm not a foreigner hater, not that I care much anyway. I'm all for immigration, but they need to be bringing something we need and be willing to integrate into a system. I'm not sure what the answer is, but you can't just come over on a rubber dingy and expect a visa to work and live here, it's idealistic and never gonna work, whoever governs the country. You realise you are talking about economic migrants there not asylum seekers? You can't seriously want people fleeing persecution to make sure they have the right skills to come here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Homosexual? Chance of death for sleeping with other men? Are you a surgeon? No, well soz mate you ain’t welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 I think a concern for some people is that 90% of the migrants crossing the channel on boats are male, and predominantly young (18-40). Bulk of them coming from countries and cultures that don't treat women and people from minority lifestyles as equals. It does worry some folks. I probably sit more to the right than most on here, although far from right wing, more in the middle, and I'm not against immigration at all. Its been a key part of this country. We all agree there has to be a better, quicker, smarter system for asylum and migration applications. Turning up at Dungeness on a dinghy with no papers and expecting to stay, shouldn't be an option IMO. Ali G had the right idea. Just let the fit women in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I'm not sure why people, like myself, who admittedly want asylum seekers who are illegally put in rubber dingies by criminal gangs, risking their own lives and the lives of their kids stopped, are being insinuated a racists. So which bit do you actually have a problem with? To go back a few pages, do you support the government making accessible, safe, well-funded routes for asylum seekers to pursue? Because right now, the only option is to hop on a boat. Quote I'm all for immigration, but they need to be bringing something we need This isn't necessarily how asylum works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Xela said: It does worry some folks. Generally speaking it tends to worry the same people who... don't treat women and people from minority lifestyles as equals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m still not having it, sorry Shall we settle in France / Holland / Germany / Spain? Nah, come on kids I’m feeling a bit crazy, let’s give that gang all our money because we probably won’t die heading to England. Why not stay here mommy? Good question, let’s go to England anyway. There obviously is a big reason why so many people do it… but I’m still to see a logical reason why 50,000 a year want to do it. From my perspective we treat asylum seekers like shit so it just doesn’t make sense. Often, it isn’t the individual in the dinghy that has handed money to a gang for that crossing. A family will have invested what money they have in getting their youngest brightest talent to somewhere where they can be safer / earn money / meet up with their siblings (whatever the reason). The gang will name a price and it can be half now to get in to the system, and half once the family receive a text from Kent. No text from Kent, no second 50%. So those people in that dinghy, in a foreign place, possibly a bit dazzled by a foreign country and a lack of decent shelter and decent food are woken up by the gang at 4:00am and told it’s on for today, shoved on a dinghy and waved off. They’ll be under pressure for the gang and the relatives to get to the place they all discussed and agreed on all those weeks ago. If they don’t get on the boat then they don’t get where everyone needs or wants them to be. There is pressure. That the last leg has an element of risk, well that was always going to be the case when they set out from home. I heard that explanation this morning for the first time, from someone on R4, and it had the ring of truth about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Xela said: I probably sit more to the right than most on here, although far from right wing, more in the middle, and I'm not against immigration at all. Its been a key part of this country. And will become even more so. Millennials aren't having kids. If we don't completely overthrow the capitalist ponzi scheme that demands infinite growth, or don't encourage even more immigration than we currently have, our economy is absolutely ****. Quote Turning up at Dungeness on a dinghy with no papers and expecting to stay, shouldn't be an option IMO. Indeed. I think most people would want this shutting down in some way - and it becomes a much easier moral and political job to do so when there are safe legal means of asylum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m still not having it, sorry Shall we settle in France / Holland / Germany / Spain? Nah, come on kids I’m feeling a bit crazy, let’s give that gang all our money because we probably won’t die heading to England. Why not stay here mommy? Good question, let’s go to England anyway. There obviously is a big reason why so many people do it… but I’m still to see a logical reason why 50,000 a year want to do it. From my perspective we treat asylum seekers like shit so it just doesn’t make sense. A good reason to treat with scepticism that they come here for a "cushy life". It's of course important to keep in mind we take in fewer asylum seekers than France, Germany, and many other countries; the people we see determined to come here are the exception, not the norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, Xela said: I think a concern for some people is that 90% of the migrants crossing the channel on boats are male, and predominantly young (18-40). Bulk of them coming from countries and cultures that don't treat women and people from minority lifestyles as equals. It does worry some folks. I probably sit more to the right than most on here, although far from right wing, more in the middle, and I'm not against immigration at all. Its been a key part of this country. We all agree there has to be a better, quicker, smarter system for asylum and migration applications. Turning up at Dungeness on a dinghy with no papers and expecting to stay, shouldn't be an option IMO. Ali G had the right idea. Just let the fit women in! When there aren’t fair and equitable channels to get in then only the stronger and less risk averse will take their chance. That tends to be young males. Have a decent system and you’ll get a better spread of ‘applicants’. Our government is complicit in manufacturing this problem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Often, it isn’t the individual in the dinghy that has handed money to a gang for that crossing. A family will have invested what money they have in getting their youngest brightest talent to somewhere where they can be safer / earn money / meet up with their siblings (whatever the reason). The gang will name a price and it can be half now to get in to the system, and half once the family receive a text from Kent. No text from Kent, no second 50%. So those people in that dinghy, in a foreign place, possibly a bit dazzled by a foreign country and a lack of decent shelter and decent food are woken up by the gang at 4:00am and told it’s on for today, shoved on a dinghy and waved off. They’ll be under pressure for the gang and the relatives to get to the place they all discussed and agreed on all those weeks ago. If they don’t get on the boat then they don’t get where everyone needs or wants them to be. There is pressure. That the last leg has an element of risk, well that was always going to be the case when they set out from home. I heard that explanation this morning for the first time, from someone on R4, and it had the ring of truth about it. I guess it makes more sense yes if the transfer is from Syria to the UK for example, no option to get off early. I was wondering why not just stop at one of the other lovely European counties but as you say, the “contract” might be to finish in the UK and the gangs want their money. Edited March 8, 2023 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m still not having it, sorry Shall we settle in France / Holland / Germany / Spain? Nah, come on kids I’m feeling a bit crazy, let’s give that gang all our money because we probably won’t die heading to England. Why not stay here mommy? Good question, let’s go to England anyway. There obviously is a big reason why so many people do it… but I’m still to see a logical reason why 50,000 a year want to do it. From my perspective we treat asylum seekers like shit so it just doesn’t make sense. It's already been said - relatives / connections here, English language, perception that London / other big cities might be easier to get by in as a foreigner... and coming from a position of having nothing. What's so hard to understand? People make desperate, dangerous journeys all the time for a better life. It's a 30 mile journey, and about 300 people have died attempting it in the last 20 years out of 100s of thousands of successful crossings. It's just not as horrifically dangerous as is being made out in the press. I'm struggling to understand which bit you're not having. You think there's some kind of additional hidden explanation that nobody knows about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: When there aren’t fair and equitable channels to get in then only the stronger and less risk averse will take their chance. That tends to be young males. Have a decent system and you’ll get a better spread of ‘applicants’. Our government is complicit in manufacturing this problem. Again this is just protecting the asylum seekers. If there is not a safe channel to come to UK, I'm sorry but why come here, stop at another of the 20 countries you pass through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, KentVillan said: I'm struggling to understand which bit you're not having. You think there's some kind of additional hidden explanation that nobody knows about? I think @chrisp65has given the best assumption (in my mind at least). Many of these people have paid to get from A to the UK. Whether they love mainland Europe or not they will be pushed to the UK to collect the fee. I was thinking about why 50,000 people chilling in France would decide to take a punt and cross the channel to a place they will be treated like shit but I guess few fall into that category. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Again this is just protecting the asylum seekers. If there is not a safe channel to come to UK, I'm sorry but why come here, stop at another of the 20 countries you pass through. Doesn’t that seem a bit shit to you though? Make it so there is no way to safely take people legally and leave it all up to some other country to deal with the problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: It's already been said - relatives / connections here, English language, perception that London / other big cities might be easier to get by in as a foreigner... and coming from a position of having nothing. What's so hard to understand? People make desperate, dangerous journeys all the time for a better life. It's a 30 mile journey, and about 300 people have died attempting it in the last 20 years out of 100s of thousands of successful crossings. It's just not as horrifically dangerous as is being made out in the press. I'm struggling to understand which bit you're not having. You think there's some kind of additional hidden explanation that nobody knows about? If they had relatives/connections here, they wouldn't be going through the system, believe, there's no need, I know a few Albanians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Genie said: I think @chrisp65has given the best assumption (in my mind at least). Many of these people have paid to get from A to the UK. Whether they love mainland Europe or not they will be pushed to the UK to collect the fee. I was thinking about why 50,000 people chilling in France would decide to take a punt and cross the channel to a place they will be treated like shit but I guess few fall into that category. They are not ‘chilling in France’ they are living in squalor in dangerous camps. Just over the water is a whole new life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, Xela said: I think a concern for some people is that 90% of the migrants crossing the channel on boats are male, and predominantly young (18-40). Bulk of them coming from countries and cultures that don't treat women and people from minority lifestyles as equals. It does worry some folks. I probably sit more to the right than most on here, although far from right wing, more in the middle, and I'm not against immigration at all. Its been a key part of this country. We all agree there has to be a better, quicker, smarter system for asylum and migration applications. Turning up at Dungeness on a dinghy with no papers and expecting to stay, shouldn't be an option IMO. Ali G had the right idea. Just let the fit women in! I don't think anyone here is idealising these migrants or saying there's nothing to worry about. Some of them are involved in organised crime, some of them could live in relative peace in their home country, etc. It unsettles communities who have to take lots of them in. All of this is true. But what bothers people is the idea being put forward by Braverman that these people only come here because of excessive wokery in British society, and that she has the answers to the problem (which has got worse on her watch!) that coincidentally make for punchy Daily Mail headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: If they had relatives/connections here, they wouldn't be going through the system, believe, there's no need, I know a few Albanians. You know a few Albanians. Amazing. Just incredible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Genie said: I guess it makes more sense yes if the transfer is from Syria to the UK for example, no option to get off early. I wondering why not just stop at one of the other lovely European counties but as you say, the “contract” might be to finish in the UK and the gangs want their money. I guess if we flip it, we can imagine if the UK was to be run by racist gangsters and old Mr and Mrs Genie decide their nipper needs a better life. They know there are chip shops and coffee shops in Malta, the Maltese speak English and everything they’ve heard about Malta has been good. What’s more, they have some distant relatives in Malta, and they’ve always liked the proud maritime history of Malta. They ask around and a gang says they can get Genie Jnr to Malta for £3k now, £3k on arrival. They could just as easily get you to Italy, France, Greece etc.. But you don’t know anyone in those places, don’t speak the language. So the deal is done, it’s Malta. That 0.07% of people who try to cross from Italy to Malta drown, feels a bit irrelevant. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: If they had relatives/connections here, they wouldn't be going through the system, believe, there's no need, I know a few Albanians. What other means do they use? Presumably you think they're using illegal ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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