The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

These guys aren't taking a boat directly from Syria are they - 'stop the boats' is about France - why risk your life in a small boat across the channel when you get to the UK and to a hostile climate created by the tories

It is about people crossing the channel, yes. They didn't used to, in large part because when we were in the EU we had an agreement where we could send them back if not genuine. Now we can't.

We've also spent the last 6 years pissing off France/French politicians by slagging them off for headlines. So they have not been inclined to do that much to help, for much of the time. At least that's changed, and Sunak might quietly get some sort of co-operation going again, properly later this week when he toddles off to France to meet Macron. What with not being Truss or Johnson and all that and having been "reliable" in dealing with Ursula Vanderleyen.

The stuff yesterday was just lunatics being lunatics. Like all the other noise they've made it'll come to nothing. It's even counter-productive, because it reminds all the angry people that the boats are still coming, and all the previous stuff they've said, along similar mad lines has had no effect at all.

[Wainy316]

Just drain the channel.  Boats stopped.

[Xann]

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, Xann said:

Tory voters in shambles at such hateful and divisive rhetoric.

[Designer1]

54 minutes ago, Jareth said:

On a personal level of safety, I still don't get the risk of putting yourself and your kids into an inflatable dinghy for these sorts of reasons, at the end of a journey away from somewhere very hostile, where you have already risked life and limb to escape that very hostile and dangerous place. Were there a safe and official route, well that would be different, and worth waiting for, but there is of course not one under the tories plans. 

I suppose you have to try and imagine just how utterly awful, hopeless and dangerous their 'normal' lives are to even contemplate putting their families and themselves at such risk.

It's a sobering and depressing thought. 

[The Fun Factory]

50 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Just drain the channel.  Boats stopped.

Finally. A sensible comment.

[desensitized43]

It would be much easier to have a really sensible conversation around this if some people started just being honest and admit they don't want to take anyone at all.

[tomav84]

29 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

It would be much easier to have a really sensible conversation around this if some people started just being honest and admit they don't want to take anyone at all.

in practice it doesn't work. i've some openly racist family members. they detest people coming in on the boats, and loathe that even a few pennies of the tax they pay goes to putting them up in hotels.

there's no way of having a sensible discussion with these people, trust me

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Designer1 said:

I suppose you have to try and imagine just how utterly awful, hopeless and dangerous their 'normal' lives are to even contemplate putting their families and themselves at such risk.

It's a sobering and depressing thought. 

I can see the point being made though, it’s from a standpoint/baseline of being in France (or Italy, Belgium, Germany etc) which seem like a nice places to live and then handing over thousands and risking it all to be in the UK.

I also must be missing the bit which makes it a worthwhile gamble.

 

[KentVillan]

14 minutes ago, Genie said:

I can see the point being made though, it’s from a standpoint/baseline of being in France (or Italy, Belgium, Germany etc) which seem like a nice places to live and then handing over thousands and risking it all to be in the UK.

I also must be missing the bit which makes it a worthwhile gamble.

You’re assuming they have accurate info to hand on the risks of crossing.

Most of the crossings happen in summer months when it is calmer; and most people make it across. Plus the coast guard have a duty to rescue.

Throw in being able to speak English and not speaking French, maybe having relatives or contacts here already, and you can see how it might seem worthwhile?

Edit: also as others have said, the vast majority of EU/UK asylum seekers are not taking this route. It’s big enough numbers to be a real issue, but most migrants do stop sooner in their journey through Europe.

At the end of the day, there are a *lot* of asylum seekers in regions close to southern and Eastern Europe who make their way across the Mediterranean or over through Turkey, the Balkans, etc. No matter how hardline you go on this, some of them will want to come to the UK for whatever reason.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout bollocks bollocks like @foreveryoungor you can acknowledge reality.

Edited March 8, 2023 by KentVillan

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Language plays a big roll I suspect.

I would of only ever moved to The Netherlands,  nowhere else in Europe. 

Because they speak English in Holland and it's ultimately easier than going to Poland or Germany for example and learning the lingo.

[desensitized43]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

in practice it doesn't work. i've some openly racist family members. they detest people coming in on the boats, and loathe that even a few pennies of the tax they pay goes to putting them up in hotels.

there's no way of having a sensible discussion with these people, trust me

Like you I have a few members of the family and some good friends who I would regard as racist. The thing is I don’t think they regard themselves as racist. If you actually called them out on it they’d be pretty upset and insist that it wasn’t about race that they just don’t want foreigners coming over and “taking the piss” out of us.

My favourite at the moment is when you hear people saying that “we need to look after our own before we start helping others” and then getting upset over “scroungers on benefits”. So which is it?

[Davkaus]

13 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Like you I have a few members of the family and some good friends who I would regard as racist. The thing is I don’t think they regard themselves as racist. If you actually called them out on it they’d be pretty upset and insist that it wasn’t about race that they just don’t want foreigners coming over and “taking the piss” out of us.

 

Indeed. Sounds rather similar to BNP rhetoric. You have to be an incredibly extreme racist to actually admit it. Most of them hate the tag, but when you peel away the piss-poor arguments one by one, it's often the only justification remaining.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

At the end of the day, there are a *lot* of asylum seekers in regions close to southern and Eastern Europe who make their way across the Mediterranean or over through Turkey, the Balkans, etc. No matter how hardline you go on this, some of them will want to come to the UK for whatever reason.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout bollocks bollocks like @foreveryoungor you can acknowledge reality.

That reality involves almost half of them (coming across) being young Albanian men. Not all wrong 'uns, but very far from genuine asylum seekers.

[Xela]

6 hours ago, bickster said:

Might get blown up by a Manpad whilst driving through Bridgend.

Act of mercy I think. 

[Genie]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

You’re assuming they have accurate info to hand on the risks of crossing.

Most of the crossings happen in summer months when it is calmer; and most people make it across. Plus the coast guard have a duty to rescue.

Throw in being able to speak English and not speaking French, maybe having relatives or contacts here already, and you can see how it might seem worthwhile?

Edit: also as others have said, the vast majority of EU/UK asylum seekers are not taking this route. It’s big enough numbers to be a real issue, but most migrants do stop sooner in their journey through Europe.

At the end of the day, there are a *lot* of asylum seekers in regions close to southern and Eastern Europe who make their way across the Mediterranean or over through Turkey, the Balkans, etc. No matter how hardline you go on this, some of them will want to come to the UK for whatever reason.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout bollocks bollocks like @foreveryoungor you can acknowledge reality.

They can’t all be that stupid though. People suggesting they don’t know the risk can’t be right. Setting sail with 40 people in a dinghy designed for 6 on open ocean after handing over thousands of Euros.

I completely understand that other countries take in many more than the UK (which also adds to the, why do it when other countries are far more welcoming?).

I still don’t understand the motive for so many of them to do it. A genuinely believable reason why a thousand people a week risk it all has never really been put forward. 

[KentVillan]

17 minutes ago, blandy said:

That reality involves almost half of them (coming across) being young Albanian men. Not all wrong 'uns, but very far from genuine asylum seekers.

That is a very recent development since May 2022, probably linked to the organised crime groups exploiting these routes being Albanian (plus huge exodus from Albania post Covid).

Over the past 5 years, Albanians have been a relatively small proportion of the numbers - dominant countries have been Iraq / Syria / Iran / Afghanistan.

 

[KentVillan]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

They can’t all be that stupid though. People suggesting they don’t know the risk can’t be right. Setting sail with 40 people in a dinghy designed for 6 on open ocean after handing over thousands of Euros.

I completely understand that other countries take in many more than the UK (which also adds to the, why do it when other countries are far more welcoming?).

I still don’t understand the motive for so many of them to do it. A genuinely believable reason why a thousand people a week risk it all has never really been put forward. 

99.9% of people who attempt it make it across. People routinely take bigger risks with Covid, drugs, whatever. Some people have high risk appetite, and desperate people will naturally have a higher risk tolerance. It's the dream of a new life, isn't it. Same reason why people climb into the undercarriage of a plane and freeze to death in the sky.

[foreveryoung]

I'm not sure why people, like myself, who admittedly want asylum seekers who are illegally put in rubber dingies by criminal gangs, risking their own lives and the lives of their kids stopped, are being insinuated a racists. It's actually getting a bit of trate on here, like differing opinions on these type of subjects, without being arsed to back it up, then you must be racist, homophobic, hate trans, etc etc etc.......,

Lets just state fact, so people know I'm not a foreigner hater, not that I care much anyway. I'm all for immigration, but they need to be bringing something we need and be willing to integrate into a system. I'm not sure what the answer is, but you can't just come over on a rubber dingy and expect a visa to work and live here, it's idealistic and never gonna work, whoever governs the country.

 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

99.9% of people who attempt it make it across. People routinely take bigger risks with Covid, drugs, whatever. Some people have high risk appetite, and desperate people will naturally have a higher risk tolerance. It's the dream of a new life, isn't it. Same reason why people climb into the undercarriage of a plane and freeze to death in the sky.

I’m still not having it, sorry  

Shall we settle in France / Holland / Germany / Spain?

Nah, come on kids I’m feeling a bit crazy, let’s give that gang all our money because we probably won’t die heading to England. 

Why not stay here mommy?

Good question, let’s go to England anyway.

There obviously is a big reason why so many people do it… but I’m still to see a logical reason why 50,000 a year want to do it. 

From my perspective we treat asylum seekers like shit so it just doesn’t make sense.