The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

What a load of boll***s. You sourced this from the charities who look after them?

I would have thought the criminal gangs who they pay to get here, tell them to head for the English borders, an if they don't kill half there family and kids on the way, they'may be living the dream in a 4 star hotel all expenses paid for a couple of years, that's if they are not criminals themselves and dismiss the system.

 

5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Why do I always need to quote sources on this forum. Its a discussion board, I'm discussing and putting my opinion across 

I'm not against immigration, I'm against randoms coming over in boats and risking there lives, then adding hardly anything to the economy. 

 

"Gut feeling; I don't like foreign people" is your source, amirite?

[StefanAVFC]

7 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Why do I always need to quote sources on this forum. Its a discussion board, I'm discussing and putting my opinion across 

I'm not against immigration, I'm against randoms coming over in boats and risking there lives, then adding hardly anything to the economy. 

You called KV's post 'bollocks', where he included sources and you even questioned his sources. Now you're complaining about people questioning your sources?

If you're going to say that, you need to be prepared to back up your views when challenged.

Edited March 8, 2023 by StefanAVFC

[bobzy]

10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Why do I always need to quote sources on this forum. Its a discussion board, I'm discussing and putting my opinion across 

I'm not against immigration, I'm against randoms coming over in boats and risking there lives, then adding hardly anything to the economy. 

There are two aspects of this discussion which always sadden me.

1.  The immediate concern is never a human's safety - it's always "but they sponge off us".
2.  People are so incredibly short sighted, that they don't see other people wanting to integrate into society and earn their way.

On the second point, would you swap your current lifestyle for one of claiming benefits and being unable to work?  I know I sure as **** wouldn't.

[bickster]

27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I'm against randoms coming over in boats and risking there lives, then adding hardly anything to the economy. 

Ah so we should allow them to work whilst their claim is processed?

The country has a shortage of people prepared to do low skilled low paid work.

The reason they add little to the economy, is that we don't allow them to add to the economy. So blaming asylum seekers for adding little to the economy is a bit stupid when they aren't allowed to. The reason they aren't allowed to? Because that would blur the lines between economic migration and asylum. (according to the Home Office)

So if you accept that, you're down to being against people risking their lives crossing the channel in small boats and I think we probably all agree that should be stopped. Making it illegal won't stop it. They already did that and look what happened. The solution isn't contained in this new law.

[Davkaus]

Never thought I'd agree with foreveryoung on this. Allow them to contribute to the economy by working and paying taxes, and create safe routes for asylum claims. Job's a good 'un  

Could even go a step further and build an adequate quantity of suitable asylum housing and adequately funds the departments that process their claims so we don't keep people in limbo for years. 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Could even go a step further and build an adequate quantity of suitable asylum housing and adequately funds the departments that process their claims so we don't keep people in limbo for years. 

We probably don’t have the money for that kind of stuff, not with the £8m a day on hotels. 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

suitable asylum housing

Problem is that it can create an imbalance in timing I guess.

The question will be asked,  a family from the UK on waiting list for a house for 3 years or people who have arrived and in need of help also.

I don't know the answer but questions will arise around things like this I imagine.

 

[juanpabloangel18]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Why do I always need to quote sources on this forum

You’re so close to a eureka moment

Won’t hold my breath

[Davkaus]

17 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

 

The question will be asked,  a family from the UK on waiting list for a house for 3 years or people who have arrived and in need of help also.

 

Yeah you're right - even though we do have international obligations, and the money is there to be spaffed up the wall when the tories feel like it, it'd definitely be used to divide and conquer. It's not 13 years of corruption and ineptitude, it's those **** asylum seekers with their short term accommodation while we process their claims

Such is the state of this country, I suspect kicking them out of the hotels and putting them into popup shanty towns would be a vote winner

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

and putting them into popup shanty towns would be a vote winner

We already did that if you remember

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

9 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It's not 13 years of corruption and ineptitude, it's those **** asylum seekers

This is the plan I think from what I see on the news.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Why do I always need to quote sources on this forum. Its a discussion board, I'm discussing and putting my opinion across 

Because you're calling a post that cited sources bollocks and then not given any sources of your own.

You're allowed to voice your opinion, but you have to expect people to challenge it or ask you to back it up. That's how a discussion works.

If I told you that Messi had a worse scoring record than Juan pablo Angel you'd probably ask me to back that up. If I replied and said "it's just my opinion" you wouldn't be very happy with it.

[pas5898]

Anyone who lands in the UK, offer them a temporary 12 month Visa and have case workers who help put them into employment. After 12 months it's reviewed and either extended for 5 years or revoked. After 5 years it can be made permanent.

Young, working age, lower skilled men should be utilised into the economy, not sent back or thrown into the underworld. Thousands of 22 year old men, who work for the next 40 years is everything this economy needs right now.

"Stop the boats" is short sighted, narrow minded and just a desperate attempt to win votes.

 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, pas5898 said:

Anyone who lands in the UK, offer them a temporary 12 month Visa and have case workers who help put them into employment. After 12 months it's reviewed and either extended for 5 years or revoked. After 5 years it can be made permanent.

Young, working age, lower skilled men should be utilised into the economy, not sent back or thrown into the underworld. Thousands of 22 year old men, who work for the next 40 years is everything this economy needs right now.

"Stop the boats" is short sighted, narrow minded and just a desperate attempt to win votes.

 

Great plan, and the new case workers can be funded from the reduction in the £8m a day spent on hotels. Everybody’s happy. 

[Rolta]

4 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

What a load of boll***s. You sourced this from the charities who look after them?

I would have thought the criminal gangs who they pay to get here, tell them to head for the English borders, an if they don't kill half there family and kids on the way, they'may be living the dream in a 4 star hotel all expenses paid for a couple of years, that's if they are not criminals themselves and dismiss the system.

Also, what is your specific complaint against charities in this context? I’ve worked for a refugee charity in Madrid, and some of my students work with refugees too.

In my experience the opinions coming from charities reflect hands on and direct interactions of people in the charities with refugees and their stories. It's the purest information there is. There’s literally nothing sugarcoated or manipulated. For me, I had direct experience with real human beings. Direct information, unlike the utter over-abundance of hysterical bad-faith information out there that has completely skewed this topic into a dark place.

Working for the charity was interesting and pretty heat-breaking. The origins of the people seeking asylum in Madrid were pretty broad, and there’s no generalised one-size-fits-all way of summing them up that could ever do justice to the actual human stories.

This is a bit of a tangent, but the majority of refugees in Madrid came from South America. I know my experience is very Spanish-centric. I think it offers some insight into why people choose a certain country over others—it’s because they speak the language and are at least feel familiar with a part of the culture, rightly or wrongly.  

Here, the most common reasons people were seeking asylum (to add detail to the most basic fact they were trying to avoid being actually murdered) was risk of being murdered for their sexuality basically, or, interestingly, because they were journalists whose work had put their lives in danger (an easy comparison would be to look at the journalists around the world who have actually been murdered). Obviously people fleeing Syria or Afganistan etc. have plenty of other reasons beside sexuality and journalism to avoid actually being murdered. Look at the various groups we've already taken into the UK—Somalis from ethnic groups that would have been actually murdered and so on.

There's a lot of actual murdering going on around the world and the dehumanisation of asylum seekers is abhorrant imo. If you actually met the people I'm sure you'd agree too. These are people with shattered lives who just want to live and build a life for themselves where they're safe. That is my actual direct experience of every refugee who passed through the charity I was involved with.

Listening to those stories is an eyeopener, and I bet if people knew more about them then the conversation would change drastically. Most people aren’t actually heartless arseholes deep down, they just get swept along by the groupthink of bullshit.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Rolta

[StefanAVFC]

if the numbers don’t matter then I think that billions want Cruella out at the next election 

[MakemineVanilla]

I think the Government's concern about the boys who arrive by boat is just a red-herring.

Someone signed a treaty at some time in the past, and committed the country to accepting all and sundry, which made it a matter of international law.

I am not sure it required the country to put them up in hotels, but maybe there are Tories who have financial interests in the hospitality sector?

In truth, I think that both sides of the aisle want immigration and are happy to redirect public attention away from the huge numbers who are legitimately given the right to citizenship every year.

I think the Tories want to ensure that a shortage of cheap labour ensures that companies are not forced to compete for workers by offering better pay, this would create inflation and make a middle-class life-style less affordable for middle-earners.

Passionate Marxists and Greens know that they need a crisis to prompt the demand for socialism, and they need an underclass to point to and failing public services to justify the need for socialism and central-planning, where jobs, goods and resources can be allocated by the state.

Sadly, the vast majority of the population desperately need to believe that they live in a democracy, where their vote counts for something, so they will pick a faction and continue to fight to maintain that delusion.

I think the destination of both factions will be roughly the same.

 

[Jareth]

Simplest way to STOP THE BOATS - just educate everyone wanting to come on how actual dogshit this country has been under the tories. Wouldn't be risking their lives if they knew. 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

Simplest way to STOP THE BOATS - just educate everyone wanting to come on how actual dogshit this country has been under the tories. Wouldn't be risking their lives if they knew. 

Yes, this country is exactly like war torn Syria - sorry but that's a very dumb comment

[Jareth]

Just now, bickster said:

Yes, this country is exactly like war torn Syria - sorry but that's a very dumb comment

Might get an ambulance if you're having a heart attack in France.