Rodders Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 the brazen shamelessness of truss. Already got Zelensky to tweet out a message of support. Exactly like Boris did. Maybe that's where she's going, off on a plane to Ukraine. word removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Yes in theory. But I bet than less than 1% of the population actually read any of the manifestos. It is personality led, presidential politics , grafted onto an ancient parliamentary system. The last election was framed as Johnson v Corbyn. Of course, but key manifesto commitments are part of the messaging. Boris talked a lot about “levelling up” and investing in the so-called Red Wall seats. It might not have been well understood, but the voting figures suggest it was picked up in these areas. What Truss is now proposing is the complete opposite - basically slash taxes on the rich and try and get London booming again. It’s a volte face, and a historically unusual one. When Boris took over from May with a very different plan from hers, he called an immediate election. That’s what Truss should do (but she will lose). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchnry Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I would say there is no way she can hold off an election until 2024 but absolutely nothing would surprise me anymore. Large protests planned in Birmingham for the tory conference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted September 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, KentVillan said: As much as I think voting Tory is stupid, I don’t think any Tory voter in 2019 could have reasonably expected that something like this would happen. Bear in mind the MPs they elected wanted Sunak to replace Johnson. This is why party members shouldn’t pick leaders. Well if they hadn't noticed the direction that the party had moved in the years between 2016 and 2019, then more fool them. This isn't a Truss thing, it's a Tory thing. This is what Johnson decided to make the Tory party, because it's what he needed it to be in order to take control of it. I don't think it's in the least bit surprising that the obviously flaky, incompetent leader crashed and burned quickly and was replaced by a lunatic (because he forced out anyone of any note in the party who wasn't), cheered along by a membership brought in en masse from UKIP and Britain First. If the people voting for that didn't realise it, then my sympathy levels for them aren't particularly high now that they are catching up. Edited September 28, 2022 by ml1dch 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 "The public seem to have reacted really badly to us giving loads of money back to the richest people in the country, leading to massive interest rate spikes, the tanking of the pound and the closure of the mortgage market. What can we do to get them back onside?" "Maybe massive cuts to the education, police and NHS budget is the thing to bring them back around?" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 hours ago, ml1dch said: Well if they hadn't noticed the direction that the party had moved in the years between 2016 and 2019, then more fool them. This isn't a Truss thing, it's a Tory thing. This is what Johnson decided to make the Tory party, because it's what he needed it to be in order to take control of it. I don't think it's in the least bit surprising that the obviously flaky, incompetent leader crashed and burned quickly and was replaced by a lunatic (because he forced out anyone of any note in the party who wasn't), cheered along by a membership brought in en masse from UKIP and Britain First. If the people voting for that didn't realise it, then my sympathy levels for them aren't particularly high now that they are catching up. But this *isn’t* the direction the party had moved in! Liz Truss is a fringe figure in the parliamentary party. This is a fringe takeover. This is not what most Tory MPs want or believe in. I get the schadenfreude of watching the Tories completely self destruct, but barely anyone predicted that the outcome would be a Liz Truss / Kwasi Kwarteng / IEA takeover of UK economic policy, when the general perception was that we had in fact elected a populist government. This wouldn’t have happened under PM Sunak, Mordaunt, Javid etc and tbh I doubt figures like Badenoch would have been this mental either. The Trusste**** is an aberration. Tory voters are to blame for Boris, and so indirectly they are to blame for Truss. But the idea this was a predictable consequence just doesn’t stack up with what anyone was saying until a few weeks ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 47 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Of course, but key manifesto commitments are part of the messaging. Boris talked a lot about “levelling up” and investing in the so-called Red Wall seats. It might not have been well understood, but the voting figures suggest it was picked up in these areas. What Truss is now proposing is the complete opposite - basically slash taxes on the rich and try and get London booming again. It’s a volte face, and a historically unusual one. When Boris took over from May with a very different plan from hers, he called an immediate election. That’s what Truss should do (but she will lose). I think people will struggle to understand what she is standing for. Boris was media created buffoonish figure with a odd mixture of liberal metropolitanism and populist politics. May was a supposedly a safe pair of hands. Cameron old fashioned tory paternalism. Truss has literally nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, ml1dch said: "The public seem to have reacted really badly to us giving loads of money back to the richest people in the country, leading to massive interest rate spikes, the tanking of the pound and the closure of the mortgage market. What can we do to get them back onside?" "Maybe massive cuts to the education, police and NHS budget is the thing to bring them back around?" The problem is, if you are dead set on big tax cuts, the only thing that will calm the markets is big spending cuts. Which I think means riots - this won’t end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted September 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said: I think people will struggle to understand what she is standing for. Boris was media created buffoonish figure with a odd mixture of liberal metropolitanism and populist politics. May was a supposedly a safe pair of hands. Cameron old fashioned tory paternalism. Truss has literally nothing. Ironically, Truss has one of the clearest and most coherent political programmes of any UK PM ever. It’s just **** insane. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, KentVillan said: But this *isn’t* the direction the party had moved in! Liz Truss is a fringe figure in the parliamentary party. This is a fringe takeover. This is not what most Tory MPs want or believe in. ... But the idea this was a predictable consequence just doesn’t stack up with what anyone was saying until a few weeks ago. LIz Truss is the longest serving cabinet member by a considerable distance, was Foreign Secretary at the time of the leadership election and has spent most of the last two years as one of the most popular members of the Government (if not the most) amongst Tory party members. That is not the description of a "fringe figure in the parliamentary party". And there's going to be a nice easy way to tell how problematic Tory MPs find her platform. These policies will require legislation to be passed in the Commons. Let's see how many of her MPs vote against them. As for the second bit, some people were saying she was the inevitable next Prime Minister (with all the stuff that she would bring) as long ago as last year. Now, obviously that's not as long ago as 2019. But it's absolutely clear what the Tory party is now, and has been for a long time. Edited September 28, 2022 by ml1dch 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, KentVillan said: The problem is, if you are dead set on big tax cuts, the only thing that will calm the markets is big spending cuts. Which I think means riots - this won’t end well. I don't think Brits have got a proper riot in us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, phily85 said: I'm not ashamed to say this latest finance stuff is going way over my head, I know it's not good. There are some people posting in hear that clearly understand this a lot better then I has anyone got a bit of an idiots breakdown of what's happening The government proposed massive tax cuts that they say will boost growth. They will fund this by massive borrowing. They did not have any costings of how much all of this would cost by the independent OBR - Office for Budgetary Responsibility. The government requires investors to buy their debt to fund this borrowing. Their plan and absence of the OBR report means markets don't trust the UK as a good place to lend money and the interest rate (called bond yield) has jumped meaning even more borrowing needed. This is done by big investors selling government bonds and then moving the money to USD. This pushes the Pound lower due to all the selling. The Bank of England can print money and buy the government bonds this lowering the interest rate (bond yield). This is what they have said they will do. Why does this matter so much? All companies and people borrow at rates higher than the UK government is borrowing. Also pension funds keep government bonds as super safe assets to pay pensioners. The price of bonds has dropped because of the above-mentioned selling and the pension funds losing lots of money. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I have to say I am revising my opinion downward of the budget. I still think it can be a net good but the market has spoken with its wallets and very loudly. The government would be foolish not to listen to it. When I said a low pound is good for exports I didnt mean THAT low 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 She has destroyed the tories' reputation in 3 weeks, utterly destroyed it. As soon as is possible, they will oust her - and I'm pretty sure they'll choose another PM via the parliamentary party in a matter of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2022 33 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I don't think Brits have got a proper riot in us Them hobnail soled jack boots taste too good for us to riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: But this *isn’t* the direction the party had moved in! Liz Truss is a fringe figure in the parliamentary party. This is a fringe takeover. This is not what most Tory MPs want or believe in. I get the schadenfreude of watching the Tories completely self destruct, but barely anyone predicted that the outcome would be a Liz Truss / Kwasi Kwarteng / IEA takeover of UK economic policy, when the general perception was that we had in fact elected a populist government. This wouldn’t have happened under PM Sunak, Mordaunt, Javid etc and tbh I doubt figures like Badenoch would have been this mental either. The Trussterfuck is an aberration. Tory voters are to blame for Boris, and so indirectly they are to blame for Truss. But the idea this was a predictable consequence just doesn’t stack up with what anyone was saying until a few weeks ago. I agree to a certain extent but Boris was ALWAYS going to leave chaos in his wake. He has undoubtedly moulded the party so this kind of cluster **** could occur. I wouldn't vote for him because this was in my opinion foreseeable. Edited September 28, 2022 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2022 43 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I don't think Brits have got a proper riot in us Having live through a few, I know this to be incorrect 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said: I think people will struggle to understand what she is standing for. Boris was media created buffoonish figure with an odd mixture of liberal metropolitanism and populist politics. May was a supposedly a safe pair of hands. Cameron old fashioned tory paternalism. Truss has literally nothing. Pork Markets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Sunak was bang on then! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted September 28, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: Sunak was bang on then! No, he was just less wrong comparing a 100% word removed to an 80% word removed It's like saying I prefer Unsworth over Lescott 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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