Genie Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 hours ago, bickster said: What happens at PMQs resonates with a very small minority of the electorate, most of whom are committed voters of one party of the other Keir Starmer getting harassed the other day will have far more effect on the undecided electorate than anything that happens at PMQs Whether he gets Johnson to change the best recovery mantra or not will not affect how people vote it also isn't very worthwhile as it will not attract a single column inch in a newspaper You’re right. Trouble is, Johnson knows you’re right. People will remember that Kier Starmer Jimmy Saville paedo thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 40 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: You’re right. Trouble is, Johnson knows you’re right. People will remember that Kier Starmer Jimmy Saville paedo thing. People are going to hear that accusation anyway. It does get a sheen of plausibility for voters unfamiliar with Johnson's habitual lying when the Prime Minister says something, but it and similar accusations have surfaced before and will definitely do so before the next election. Reactionary voters will also get reminded of John Worboys; more progressive-minded voters will be reminded (not *directly* by a Tory figure of course, but they'll get it into the discourse) about the Twitter Joke Trial, about Jean Charles de Menezes, and about Ian Tomlinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I don't really want Boris to go. The first and most obvious reason is that he's rubbish and the longer he stays, the less likely the Tories are to win the next election imo. The second is the rumblings I've been seeing recently in the Guardian that the Brexity (and anti-lockdown) Tories are re-forming as an anti-climate change faction within the Tories. And say what you like about Boris (and possibly more relevently Carrie in this case) but he's certainly on the more pro-environment side of the Tory party. I'd rather not have a new leader come in who is more aligned with the anti-environment faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: People are going to hear that accusation anyway. It does get a sheen of plausibility for voters unfamiliar with Johnson's habitual lying when the Prime Minister says something, but it and similar accusations have surfaced before and will definitely do so before the next election. Reactionary voters will also get reminded of John Worboys; more progressive-minded voters will be reminded (not *directly* by a Tory figure of course, but they'll get it into the discourse) about the Twitter Joke Trial, about Jean Charles de Menezes, and about Ian Tomlinson. On a vox pop of one (me), without hitting google I would recognise the name Saville and what that means to be associated with it. I know about de Menezes but I’d struggle to put a date or a government to it. I recognise the names Tomlinson and Worboys but no idea why. I have no idea what the twitter joke trial is. Johnson knew exactly what he was doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, Panto_Villan said: I don't really want Boris to go. The first and most obvious reason is that he's rubbish and the longer he stays, the less likely the Tories are to win the next election imo. The second is the rumblings I've been seeing recently in the Guardian that the Brexity (and anti-lockdown) Tories are re-forming as an anti-climate change faction within the Tories. And say what you like about Boris (and possibly more relevently Carrie in this case) but he's certainly on the more pro-environment side of the Tory party. I'd rather not have a new leader come in who is more aligned with the anti-environment faction. If you think Johnson is pro or anti anything, you might well be wrong. Other than Johnson. He’s very very pro Johnson. If 51% of voters thought the moon was cheese, Johnson would be pledging a tower of crackers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: If you think Johnson is pro or anti anything, you might well be wrong. Other than Johnson. He’s very very pro Johnson. If 51% of voters thought the moon was cheese, Johnson would be pledging a tower of crackers. Sure. But a large majority of voters and his wife both want more action on climate change, so in this specific case that's beneficial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Sure. But a large majority of voters and his wife both want more action on climate change, so in this specific case that's beneficial. Would be worth checking how many of them want action on climate change now, versus how many of them would be happy with action on climate change absolutely definitely, but just a little later, once we’ve got your fuel bills down. It’s not a referendum I’d want to bet on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 Johnson is pro-corporate, pro-bank, pro-money. Those people are at the vanguard of the climate change denial movement. I'm not expecting Johnson to prevent the end of life on the planet. I am expecting him to ensure that while we wait for the end of life on the planet as much of the wealth in our society is funnelled to those who already hold most wealth as is possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Sure. But a large majority of voters and his wife both want more action on climate change You think so? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, chrisp65 said: On a vox pop of one (me), without hitting google I would recognise the name Saville and what that means to be associated with it. I know about de Menezes but I’d struggle to put a date or a government to it. I recognise the names Tomlinson and Worboys but no idea why. I have no idea what the twitter joke trial is. Johnson knew exactly what he was doing. Oh he definitely did. I'm just saying people are also likely to be reminded of the others as well. (The point about De Menezes and Tomlinson - he was the newspaper vendor who died in a protest that he wasn't attending when he was pushed to the floor by a police officer - is that in both cases Starmer appears to have been personally involved in the decision not to prosecute police. Worboys was the serial black cab rapist; the CPS decided in 2009 to only prosecute 12 cases out of 40 files. Again, as with Savile, it is far from clear that Starmer had any involvement in the decision personally, but the connection will be made all the same, perhaps including the weird coincidence that Johnson's wife was one of his intended victims. We know this connection will be made again because if you Google 'starmer worboys' you will find right-wing newspapers bringing the subject up in a co-ordinated fashion in 2018. The Twitter Joke Trial was the guy who got prosecuted for what was clearly a joke about 'blowing Robin Hood airport sky high' or some such thing; the CPS prosecuted, he was convicted, and then he went through a series of appeals; at the time Starmer was accused - though it was also denied - of personally insisting on fighting these appeals). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Would be worth checking how many of them want action on climate change now, versus how many of them would be happy with action on climate change absolutely definitely, but just a little later, once we’ve got your fuel bills down. It’s not a referendum I’d want to bet on. Yeah. I'd agree with that. And there certainly needs to be some focus on grid resiliency as we convert over to renewable power to stop this sort of thing happening so much, because it can backfire and erode support for environmental action. But what I was referring to is someone who is intentionally going to sandbag progress in the future (who wants a permanent pause, not just for the next year or so) using the current energy crisis as a way to get into power. 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: You think so? I don't. I think there's pretty widespread support for it, tbh. BBC article here quotes 58% wanting ambitious targets and 34% gradual, and only 7% saying no action should be taken. Edited February 9, 2022 by Panto_Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: I think there's pretty widespread support for it, tbh. BBC article here quotes 58% wanting ambitious targets and 34% gradual, and only 7% saying no action should be taken. Widespread support from the public and policy are very distant cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, OutByEaster? said: Widespread support from the public and policy are very distant cousins. Yeah, but I was responding to a post asking if there was widespread support, which I think there is. I'm not claiming that Boris is here to save the day re: climate change, but I am saying that there's a real chance the next Tory leader could be appreciably worse on the environmental front compared to Boris. I don't think Boris would be making net zero pledges if he was actually about climate change denial on behalf of the banks, because there's plenty of other stances he could easily have taken (and other future leaders might take) that would more effectively enable that position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Yeah, but I was responding to a post asking if there was widespread support, which I think there is. Fair enough. Quote I'm not claiming that Boris is here to save the day re: climate change, but I am saying that there's a real chance the next Tory leader could be appreciably worse on the environmental front compared to Boris. I don't think Boris would be making net zero pledges if he was actually about climate change denial on behalf of the banks, because there's plenty of other stances he could easily have taken (and other future leaders might take) that would more effectively enable that position. I admire your optimism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 On 03/02/2022 at 23:01, StefanAVFC said: Guess who just got promoted to deputy chief whip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted February 9, 2022 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Genie said: Guess who just got promoted to deputy chief whip Congratulations. Never had you down for that gig! oh, I see. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 The Guardian are reporting that the Met might actually have woken up to the fact that the flat refurbishment might just have been illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 Somebody back in this thread predicted that the anti-Bojo faction would have more incriminating pics, but would carefully time the drip-feeding them to the press to keep the pot bubbling. Looking like that's exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 10, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2022 10 hours ago, mjmooney said: Somebody back in this thread predicted that the anti-Bojo faction would have more incriminating pics, but would carefully time the drip-feeding them to the press to keep the pot bubbling. Looking like that's exactly right. But real people don't care about cake. The ANTI-BORIS MEDIA need to stop trying to bring down a democratically elected PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts