Phil Silvers Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 minute ago, bickster said: Thats why Johnson is getting Sunak to own the Nat Ins increase now before it happens Yeah I know, that's what I was alluding to. It's what they do and have always done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bickster said: Thats why Johnson is getting Sunak to own the Nat Ins increase now before it happens Only for the extra monies to be creamed off by the private interests the Tories are looking to entrench in the NHS. What a nation of absolute mugs. Edited January 30, 2022 by Xann 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Just now, Xann said: Only for the extra monies to be creamed off by the private interests the Tories are looking to introduce. What a nation of absolute mugs. We’re a lazy nation. record high petrol diesel prices? Shrug. record high gas prices? Shrug thousands of avoidable deaths? Shrug corruption everywhere you look? Shrug piss taking when we the public we’re told they had to protect the NHS? Shrug Broken election promises? Shrug Higher taxes? Shrug Brexit ruining businesses, families and the prospects of several generations? Shrug Nobody can be bothered to protest (in a specific way that they didn’t ban) anymore. It is what it is, they are all as bad as each other, he’s doing his best, bless him, he makes me laugh. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 20 minutes ago, Genie said: Re-confirming the NI increase is happening, is this the classic Boris peppering the press with negative media so they can’t focus on 1 thing? Saw a comparison last night, this is expected to bring in each year less than 10% of the fraudulent covid loans that they wrote off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Saw a comparison last night, this is expected to bring in each year less than 10% of the fraudulent covid loans that they wrote off I guess it also doesn’t factor in the amount of money they’d get via VAT if they just left it with the public to spend on what they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Once again, Finland is named the happiest country in the world. Rounding out the rest of the top 10 are countries that have consistently ranked among the happiest. The country that makes the rich pay tax. Funny that, eh? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Also... Quote Are there private schools in Finland? Quora Worth a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 22 minutes ago, Genie said: We’re a lazy nation. record high petrol diesel prices? Shrug. record high gas prices? Shrug thousands of avoidable deaths? Shrug corruption everywhere you look? Shrug piss taking when we the public we’re told they had to protect the NHS? Shrug Broken election promises? Shrug Higher taxes? Shrug Brexit ruining businesses, families and the prospects of several generations? Shrug Nobody can be bothered to protest (in a specific way that they didn’t ban) anymore. It is what it is, they are all as bad as each other, he’s doing his best, bless him, he makes me laugh. Break it up. Let the core that is content stay as they are. Let those that aren’t content **** off and try something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: Saw a comparison last night, this is expected to bring in each year less than 10% of the fraudulent covid loans that they wrote off My very Tory Brexit dad seems to think the covid loan fraud is individuals/small businesses rather than big business, dont know if he is correct? This is a generalisation but for any relief function you have to make it accessible to the ones who need it but struggle to even sort it out for themselves, this opens it up to fraud but as with benefits (housing, child, employment, disability) this does allow the people who need it to get it. In that respect the fraud on those benefits is relatively small but billed as high profile. I think Im defending the government here, if small business/individuals were the main receivers of the scheme then so be it, big number to write off but it would be 1000s of fraud cases surely. If the majority of the sum is by big business then its another issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2022 23 minutes ago, Nicho said: My very Tory Brexit dad seems to think the covid loan fraud is individuals/small businesses rather than big business, dont know if he is correct? 2 major banks involved is the rumour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 14 minutes ago, bickster said: 2 major banks involved is the rumour With MP’s on the payroll (coincidentally) is my prediction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 30, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2022 It might just be a sort of paranoia, but did you notice that the Beeb and most of the Tory press used a picture where they made Sunak look taller than Johnson? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: It might just be a sort of paranoia, but did you notice that the Beeb and most of the Tory press used a picture where they made Sunak look taller than Johnson? Funnily enough, I was watching a news piece about the NI increase which featured both of them next to each other in such a way that I did find myself thinking “Well, Sunak doesn’t look particularly small compared to Johnson there…”. Since his slight stature was pointed out I do find myself noticing it, but not so much today. I don’t know how much news coverage would normally be focused on the PM as well as the Chancellor for something like this. Maybe I’m looking for it so there’s a touch of confirmation bias on my part, but it does feel a bit like “Hey everyone, this shit story isn’t just Rishi - it also features Boris!!”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2022 43 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Funnily enough, I was watching a news piece about the NI increase which featured both of them next to each other in such a way that I did find myself thinking “Well, Sunak doesn’t look particularly small compared to Johnson there…”. Since his slight stature was pointed out I do find myself noticing it, but not so much today. I don’t know how much news coverage would normally be focused on the PM as well as the Chancellor for something like this. Maybe I’m looking for it so there’s a touch of confirmation bias on my part, but it does feel a bit like “Hey everyone, this shit story isn’t just Rishi - it also features Boris!!”. It's the other way around, this is Johnson saying you are going to own this Sunak, there were stories circulating about Sunak trying to push the idea as Johnson's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Nicho said: My very Tory Brexit dad seems to think the covid loan fraud is individuals/small businesses rather than big business, dont know if he is correct? This is a generalisation but for any relief function you have to make it accessible to the ones who need it but struggle to even sort it out for themselves, this opens it up to fraud but as with benefits (housing, child, employment, disability) this does allow the people who need it to get it. In that respect the fraud on those benefits is relatively small but billed as high profile. I think Im defending the government here, if small business/individuals were the main receivers of the scheme then so be it, big number to write off but it would be 1000s of fraud cases surely. If the majority of the sum is by big business then its another issue for me. I suspect your dad is largely right, and I agree with the thrust of your post. People talk about recovering these fraudulent loans as if it would/will be easy, but while some will be obvious open-and-shut fraudulent applications, in many cases it will be hard to prove to the necessary standard that the application was fraudulent rather than the businessperson making an attempt at a successful business but failing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2022 59 minutes ago, bickster said: It's the other way around, this is Johnson saying you are going to own this Sunak, there were stories circulating about Sunak trying to push the idea as Johnson's Yeah I get that. I didn’t know if perhaps, in the Beeb’s case anyway, Rishi’s pal was making it appear more like it’s a joint thing. So not all the anger/annoyance is directed at Sunak, it also goes to that slovenly fella who we’re currently already unhappy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 hours ago, Nicho said: My very Tory Brexit dad seems to think the covid loan fraud is individuals/small businesses rather than big business, dont know if he is correct? This is a generalisation but for any relief function you have to make it accessible to the ones who need it but struggle to even sort it out for themselves, this opens it up to fraud but as with benefits (housing, child, employment, disability) this does allow the people who need it to get it. In that respect the fraud on those benefits is relatively small but billed as high profile. I think Im defending the government here, if small business/individuals were the main receivers of the scheme then so be it, big number to write off but it would be 1000s of fraud cases surely. If the majority of the sum is by big business then its another issue for me. 29 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I suspect your dad is largely right, and I agree with the thrust of your post. People talk about recovering these fraudulent loans as if it would/will be easy, but while some will be obvious open-and-shut fraudulent applications, in many cases it will be hard to prove to the necessary standard that the application was fraudulent rather than the businessperson making an attempt at a successful business but failing. We have built a system for fighting benefits fraud from individuals. All those millions of transactions with hundreds of thousands of individuals. There is a very expensive network of people and systems to minimise fraudulent benefits claims. There’s a bit less of a thorough system for sorting out small scale tax dodges and frauds. But there is enough of a system for lots of people to see it as a deterrent. There’s clearly no appetite to invest in a mechanism for reclaiming the millions lost to ‘businesses’ over the pandemic. It would be massively time consuming and staff heavy to chase all those loans and grants of a couple of thousand here and a couple of thousand there spread across tens of thousands of claimants.. Interesting way around building the anti fraud system. He’s right, and it’s wrong. Personally I want all people suspected of theft to be pursued with equal vigour, or perhaps, a sliding scale of vigour. Whether they did it as John, John the Window cleaner, Johns Window Cleaning Services Ltd, or JWCS International. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 30, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 hours ago, bickster said: 2 major banks involved is the rumour I think the thing with the banks is, they were lending someone else's money with no risk at all to themselves. So with no incentive to check the bona fides of loan requesters it may well have been less any alleged shenanigans by banks, and more shenanigans by people going to those banks for these loans, perhaps? I'm not excusing any slackness, more wondering whether there's an alternative explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2022 35 minutes ago, blandy said: I think the thing with the banks is, they were lending someone else's money with no risk at all to themselves. So with no incentive to check the bona fides of loan requesters it may well have been less any alleged shenanigans by banks, and more shenanigans by people going to those banks for these loans, perhaps? I'm not excusing any slackness, more wondering whether there's an alternative explanation. The fraud was in the Furlough Scheme I thought, that money was relief to businesses paid direct from the government, this wasn't loans via intermediary banks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 30, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2022 40 minutes ago, bickster said: The fraud was in the Furlough Scheme I thought, that money was relief to businesses paid direct from the government, this wasn't loans via intermediary banks I understood it to be fraud around loans to small businesses, not the furlough scheme, and that these loans were facilitated by banks as the guvmint’s intermediary - I’m sure I read somewhere that loads of them didn’t even exist! Could be mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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