Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Drinks in his garden and there’s national uproar. This is why I have a uneasy feeling about it all. Labour will lord it as a massive victory and on the face of it, looks good. Does it get them closer to power in the long run, who knows but as you say, lots of people dying doesn't get traction, cheese and wine, people lose it. "It was the wensleydale that won it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, cyrusr said: There is also a real glut of Tories that I would think would have that charisma that Boris has to try and carry them over until the next election. Sunk maybe but the likes of Gove/Truss/Hunt/Javid/Patel will absolutely either get pulverised or alternatively alienate a lot of the vote that has got them into power. Like who? Genuine question as barring sunak and possibly javid, the rest of that list has as much charisma as mr bean. I think if boris goes truss will be taking over and can see sunak being her no 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Like who? Genuine question as barring sunak and possibly javid, the rest of that list has as much charisma as mr bean. I think if boris goes truss will be taking over and can see sunak being her no 2 Yeah completely agree. It is just bonkers that they will still get a significant part of the vote in the next GE irrespective of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Yeah completely agree. It is just bonkers that they will still get a significant part of the vote in the next GE irrespective of this. I think the SNP being in power also has a impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: This is why I have a uneasy feeling about it all. Labour will lord it as a massive victory and on the face of it, looks good. Does it get them closer to power in the long run, who knows but as you say, lots of people dying doesn't get traction, cheese and wine, people lose it. "It was the wensleydale that won it" I think it's very simple, and not as trivial as your posts seems to suggest it is. People were always going to die. Could we have reduced the numbers? Almost certainly. How much by? God knows. It's a complete unknown. It's hard to get too angry that we could have saved an unspecified number of lives by taking different but undetermined actions. It's an abstract idea of potential better outcomes. There's no such nuance or hypotheticality about the **** partying on the very day they announced we could only meet one person outdoors. It's a concrete example of injustice and not following their own rules that people are absolutely right to be outraged about, and should see the end of his premiership and an irrepairable hit to what little credibility this government had. It's also the continued lying about it, over weeks. People are a lot more tolerant of inadvertant **** ups than they are of deliberate lies and deception. Edited January 12, 2022 by Davkaus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Yeah completely agree. It is just bonkers that they will still get a significant part of the vote in the next GE irrespective of this. i'm not so sure. they will seem like such a step up from boris that i can see them winning comfortably again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Like who? Genuine question as barring sunak and possibly javid, the rest of that list has as much charisma as mr bean. I think if boris goes truss will be taking over and can see sunak being her no 2 Truss would make Boris look competent. Boris is PM for the lols and an ego massage, he has nothing he wants to achieve and gives not a single f*** about actually doing the work. It makes him a terrible PM to be sure. Truss actually seems to be trying hard and is still wildly incompetent. Her speech giving is genuine car crash material (see cheese speech for example) and when questioned she seems to have lost touch with reality completely. TBF she is a fairly good representative of the deluded but trying hard wing of the Tory party. As far as I can work out she is a charisma vacuum, but I'd rather get kicked in the nuts by a horse than spend my time with any of the Tory front bench so I'm not exactly impartial here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i'm not so sure. they will seem like such a step up from boris that i can see them winning comfortably again. Not really because they still have to get over the hurdle that they for a number of years supported Johnson and backed him through ALL the shit that got thrown at him. The stench of Johnson won't just go away with a new leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Not really because they still have to get over the hurdle that they for a number of years supported Johnson and backed him through ALL the shit that got thrown at him. The stench of Johnson won't just go away with a new leader can only hope i don't see him stepping down anyway though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 41 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's also the continued lying about it, over weeks. People are a lot more tolerant of inadvertant **** ups than they are of deliberate lies and deception. Good post and this could be true but voters have short memories. We will find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 45 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's also the continued lying about it, over weeks. People are a lot more tolerant of inadvertant **** ups than they are of deliberate lies and deception. Of course there are inadvertent F ups. We are in a global pandemic. Boris himself had the virus and almost died. He's doing the best he can and I just wish people would get behind him so we can make this country great again. ......Is a sentiment that is unfortunately still far too prevalent. I worry that we credit the masses with too much intelligence sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 12, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: This was the case a while ago but the UK is 31st in this horrible list now. It was 4th and 5th for ages though. It's true - we're now 32nd overall in the world. Coronavirus (COVID-19) Deaths - Statistics and Research - Our World in Data But amongst similar, developed nations we're third worst, still. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 12, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: People are a lot more tolerant of inadvertant **** ups than they are of deliberate lies and deception. That's true. But as @Genieposted many many of the deaths weren't due to "inadvertent eff ups". They were the consequence of negligence, of Matt Hancock lying (according to testimony given to Parliament) and so on - particularly around care homes. In other words the deliberate lies and deception is not just Bunter (those he's by far the worst), but it is endemic within the Tory party. I think there might be more anger around the hypocrisy due to the nature of this: Figures for people dying in care homes is "other people". Restrictions on meeting people, visiting people etc - that's "that affected me" - so the hypocrisy and deceit is felt by everyone They did that to me, but ignored it themselves is more powerful than "they caused that for someone else, but not me" in the way many humans think. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 17 hours ago, Xela said: I think Boris will be gone soon enough. I get a feeling the powers that be in the Tory HQ are leaking this to make his position impossible. Who to take over though? Sunak? Gove? They'll want a more polished turd than Boris Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 I’ll go for here instead of Cheery Tweets as it’s seeing more action 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 it is never ending 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Good post and this could be true but voters have short memories. We will find out. and it's up to the opposition to keep all this fresh in everyone's minds until 2023. i unfortunately don't have faith in starmer to do that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 PMQ’s is gonna be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: it is never ending Partygate will soon calm down especially if Boris does jump (or eventually pushed) but this corruption, whilst it may not currently stick as much as the lying, really is what should do for the absolute lot of them. This corruption goes far and wide in the Party, to use a word the Tories want to use, it's endemic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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