Marka Ragnos Posted September 1, 2015 Author VT Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I think the single biggest turning point in recorded history is Henry VIII marrying Anne Boleyn. * Split Christianity * Everything that then came from the reign of Elizabeth I, which shaped almost everything about the modern world now. I think the single biggest turning point in recorded history is Henry VIII marrying Anne Boleyn. * Split Christianity * Everything that then came from the reign of Elizabeth I, which shaped almost everything about the modern world now. Classic Anglocentrism. The Reformation was taking place all over Europe (Martin Luther et al). Protestantism was not invented by an English king. When I was at primary school we were taught that the first man to circumnavigate the world was Sir Francis Drake, and that the printing press was invented by Caxton. No different to Americans thinking that the US Navy captured the first Enigma machine and won the war in North Africa, really. I love these kinds of discussions ... But I will see your Anne Boleyn, Darren, and raise you one Saul of Tarsus. Even if you're not a believer, it's hard to deny that his conversion to Christianity didn't essentially super-charge the propagation of a religion which other may have faded as just another semitic desert cult. The dude was the Saatchi and Saatchi of his day -- a mass-media force that changed millions of minds ... and made the Christianity you mention so big it was almost inevitably headed for the "split" you cite. Edited September 1, 2015 by Plastic Man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think the single biggest turning point in recorded history is Henry VIII marrying Anne Boleyn. * Split Christianity * Everything that then came from the reign of Elizabeth I, which shaped almost everything about the modern world now.Classic Anglocentrism. The Reformation was taking place all over Europe (Martin Luther et al). Protestantism was not invented by an English king. When I was at primary school we were taught that the first man to circumnavigate the world was Sir Francis Drake, and that the printing press was invented by Caxton. No different to Americans thinking that the US Navy captured the first Enigma machine and won the war in North Africa, really. oh is this quiz time ... Magellan and Gutenberg .... do i win though technically Magellan died before the journey ended so he didn't actually make itKeith Roberts' sf novel 'Pavane' is a good read on this theme (a 'alternative' world where the Reformation failed and Catholicism held sway). from memory you used to "hate" what if books ?? Good memory. I generally don't like them, especially the ones masquerading as non-fiction, i.e. supposedly historical analysis. As for novels, there are one or two mildly entertaining ones - Pavane, The Man in the High Castle, Fatherland, SS GB... but there are whole genre series out there that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You'd have to stop Versailles IMO you'd completely change the next 25 years of German history, killing hitler would have had a huge impact obviously but it would have resolved nothing Karl Marx is the one for me if you're talking impact from killing someone, can you imagine if communism (or least people's butchered interpretation of Marx's communism) had never been dreamt up? Russian revolution, I'd make a good argument over the nazis coming in to power because of it, the Cold War, Chinese revolution... Maybe the most influential man in the last 100 years of history Ah, but something would have happened in Russia, Marx or no Marx -- it was just too oppressive and unfair. The Bolshies lit the fuse, but the fuse was already there. Oh I agree don't get me wrong, they'd already killed their half decent tsar before (Alexander II) and there weren't many others, the whole tsar system makes our monarchy look good, the Duma didn't work, they'd lost to Japan, and then I think worst of all Nicholas wasn't interested in the slightest, ostracised himself in effect, then during the war left his German wife in charge while he went to a front line where they were getting battered... Have to remember there were 2 revolutions and a small civil war, the Bolsheviks were the 2nd, they didn't cause him to abdicate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 1, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 1, 2015 1980. I'd see Villa win the league, then the European Cup then buy a load of shares in Microsoft and Apple. And tell Gilles to just let it go in May '82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think the single biggest turning point in recorded history is Henry VIII marrying Anne Boleyn. * Split Christianity * Everything that then came from the reign of Elizabeth I, which shaped almost everything about the modern world now. I think the single biggest turning point in recorded history is Henry VIII marrying Anne Boleyn. * Split Christianity * Everything that then came from the reign of Elizabeth I, which shaped almost everything about the modern world now. Classic Anglocentrism. The Reformation was taking place all over Europe (Martin Luther et al). Protestantism was not invented by an English king. When I was at primary school we were taught that the first man to circumnavigate the world was Sir Francis Drake, and that the printing press was invented by Caxton. No different to Americans thinking that the US Navy captured the first Enigma machine and won the war in North Africa, really. I love these kinds of discussions ... But I will see your Anne Boleyn, Darren, and raise you one Saul of Tarsus. Even if you're not a believer, it's hard to deny that his conversion to Christianity didn't essentially super-charge the propagation of the religion. The dude was the Saatchi and Saatchi of his day -- a mass-media force that changed millions of minds ... Agreed. Despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that I'm a hardline atheist, I'm very tempted to read this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 1, 2015 Author VT Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Agreed. Despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that I'm a hardline atheist, I'm very tempted to read this: I like that guy a lot -- he's the kind of British historian who doesn't translate well to American readers, because we insist on seeing Britain in terms of tourist tropes. Most Americans WANT the English to be colorfully Anglocentric -- just as long as they remember it's the Americans who possesses the ICBM codes. Edited September 1, 2015 by Plastic Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well this thread got boring pretty quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well this thread got boring pretty quickly. Go back in time and change it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ayyyyyyy lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I'm not that much clued up on space and time or space time or the whole workings of the DeLorean. However if we'd managed to stop WWII would I still be here? My grandfather, a luftwaffe pilot met my Irish grandmother, who'd come to England to work in the POW camp as a nurse, where they both met and fell in love. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 1, 2015 Author VT Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2015 I'm not that much clued up on space and time or space time or the whole workings of the DeLorean. However if we'd managed to stop WWII would I still be here? My grandfather, a luftwaffe pilot met my Irish grandmother, who'd come to England to work in the POW camp as a nurse, where they both met and fell in love. Sounds like a movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If it was a real thing I go back to the crucifixion of Christ just to utter the words 'you're never gonna get that book deal JC with this ridiculous martyrdom behaviour, you massive prick' Else, last Friday when I went out with the lads on a good old fashioned tear up oi oi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If it was a real thing I go back to the crucifixion of Christ just to utter the words 'you're never gonna get that book deal JC with this ridiculous martyrdom behaviour, you massive prick' Else, last Friday when I went out with the lads on a good old fashioned tear up oi oi Surely if it was real that would both lack a bit of class and not be a great long term plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieZ Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I guess the operative question is "As whom?" For 99% of people over 99% of human history, being alive at all means living day-to-day with a 33-year lifespan, hoping the harvest comes through or that you're able to catch enough food to survive, praying your village isn't sacked by raiders and that your kids survive childhood, and wishing your toothache would go away or that you didn't have a club foot. It would be interesting to be a Persian monarch during the Achaemenid Dynasty or an Egyptian pharaoh during the Middle Kingdom or a Chinese emperor during the Han Dynasty or something, but that would probably suck, too, as you were just as likely to get poisoned by your mother-in-law or stabbed in the back by a court eunuch than to live to old age. And they had toothaches and club feet, too. Edited September 1, 2015 by JamieZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If it was a real thing I go back to the crucifixion of Christ just to utter the words 'you're never gonna get that book deal JC with this ridiculous martyrdom behaviour, you massive prick' Else, last Friday when I went out with the lads on a good old fashioned tear up oi oi Surely if it was real that would both lack a bit of class and not be a great long term plan? Yes probably, but that's the story of my life. And I'd probably cut down on a bit of religion or something which would be nice. And get my name in the Bible. 'As they put the crown of thorns on JCs head, PongRiddims rocked up in his Bermuda shorts with a completely classless short term plan' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'd go back to the Spring and suggest to the council landord that May / June / July would be the ideal time to lay a 3G pitch, as opposed to August / September / October. But then, when else am I going to experience the joy of 12 consecutive away games? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'd go back to the Spring and suggest to the council landord that May / June / July would be the ideal time to lay a 3G pitch, as opposed to August / September / October. But then, when else am I going to experience the joy of 12 consecutive away games? Who makes these decisions!? What club is it CP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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