The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[tinker]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So you voted Labout I get it.

You do realise some poor Pensioners are going to go without the Fuel benefit too yeah? Or did you not read that bit.

Any pensioners that get income based benefits get the fuel benefit, it's means tested, that makes it fair. I know pensioners that have £1m pensions funds that were recipients of the winter fuel allowances, that's not fair.

[foreveryoung]

6 minutes ago, limpid said:

Did the poster say they voted Labour? Or did they say that the country was run into the ground by the Tories? One does not imply the other. Please read what people write and stop creating strawmen.

Which "poor pensioners" are you talking about? "Poor pensioners" will still get the allowance through their pension benefits.

I totally understand the tories have f*****ed it up, I mean who don't on VT.  But the point he totally dismissed me noting it affects some of the poorer pensioners too, so it's not all good from Labour.

I heard it will not just be taken from the wealthy..  Again, I'm not going to research for the quote, I think it's if they are not recieving certain benefis.

[limpid]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I heard it will not just be taken from the wealthy..  Again, I'm not going to research for the quote, I think it's if they are not recieving certain benefis.

You've allocated a score for the current government based on something you didn't understand and can't be bothered to research? Cool story.

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, limpid said:

You've allocated a score for the current government based on something you didn't understand and can't be bothered to research? Cool story.

Heard it on the news. I know the detail, just didn't think I would need to give the full story, as it seems, a few on here are already affluent in all what's going on in polotics.

[Danwichmann]

Quote

Government plan to means-test winter fuel payments could push extra 100,000 pensioners into poverty, thinktank says

A thinktank has suggested that the government’s plan to means-test winter fuel payments could push an extra 100,000 pensioners into poverty.

In a briefing sent out ahead of the vote tomorrow on removing winter fuel payments from all pensioners apart from those receiving pension credit, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation says the government’s policy is likely to increase the number of pensioners living in poverty (defined as having less than 60% of median household income). It says:

One in six pensioners are in poverty in the latest data covering 2022/23 - 16% or 1.9 million. Relative pensioner poverty fell from 25% to 13% between 2002-2011, but it has increased by three percentage points since 2012/13.

Were winter fuel payment eligibility restricted in 2022/23 in the way the government is planning to this winter, an extra 100,000 pensioners would have been in poverty, pushing the total number to 2 million. This would have increased the pensioner poverty rate by one percentage point to 17%.

The JRF says the government can partly alleviate the problem by getting more pensioners to claim pension credit (which it is doing – see 2.36pm). But it says this alone will not solve the problem, because some pensioners living in poverty are not eligible for pension credit. It suggests paying winter fuel allowance to all pensioners living in homes with low council tax bands, such as A-B, or A-D. Targeting bands A-D would cover 80% of pensioners in poverty, it says.

Guardian

 In fairness to Foreveryoung I think this is the type of thing he may be talking about. 

Winter fuel allowance should be definitely be means tested but how thats done is important. On the other hand, The Guardian was also reporting that a lot of of extra people were applying for pension credit, so if this leads to more people applying for money they are entitled to and less wealthy people getting an allowance they don't need, it had the potential to be a double win. 

Edited September 9 by Danwichmann
Added link

[limpid]

1 minute ago, Danwichmann said:

Guardian

 In fairness to Foreveryoung I think this is the type of thing he may be talking about. 

Winter fuel allowance should be definitely be means tested but how thats done is important. On the other hand, The Guardian was also reporting that a lot of of extra people were applying for pension credit, so if there leads to more people applying for money they entitled to and less wealthy people getting an allowance they don't need, it had the potential to be a double win. 

Thanks for this. I was being affluent with my knowledge.

[bickster]

Effluent?

[delboy54]

Got to say that if the Tories had cut the winter fuel allowance there would have been an outcry from everyone of all ages...demonstrations on the streets in London etc by the usual demonstrators...

As Labour have done it the only outcry is from the pensioners...

Perhaps if the government didnt give some of the billions over overseas aid then that would have gone some way to plug the so called 20 billion black hole.

I know that some pensioners are wealthy enough not to need this payment, but the methodology Labour have used seems flawed.

[Seat68]

11 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Got to say that if the Tories had cut the winter fuel allowance there would have been an outcry from everyone of all ages...demonstrations on the streets in London etc by the usual demonstrators...

As Labour have done it the only outcry is from the pensioners...

Perhaps if the government didnt give some of the billions over overseas aid then that would have gone some way to plug the so called 20 billion black hole.

I know that some pensioners are wealthy enough not to need this payment, but the methodology Labour have used seems flawed.

You genuinely think that there would have been demonstrations in London if the tories had planned to cut winter fuel allowance? You really believe that?

[Jon]

16 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

You genuinely think that there would have been demonstrations in London if the tories had planned to cut winter fuel allowance? You really believe that?

Is this part of a stewart lee sketch where we keep asking him if he believes something until he admits he doesn't?  

 

[delboy54]

38 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

You genuinely think that there would have been demonstrations in London if the tories had planned to cut winter fuel allowance? You really believe that?

Yep

[Genie]

12 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

But the point he totally dismissed me noting it affects some of the poorer pensioners too, so it's not all good from Labour.

The poorest pensioners still get their pension, pension credit and the fuel allowance so I assume they are unaffected by this.

Edited September 10 by Genie

[Seat68]

5 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Yep

You genuinely believe that the SWP, the workers party, the greens will assemble en masse to protest a cut to the winter fuel allowance? Think about that. The vast majority of people, certainly those that are likely to protest are not going to be impacted by it in the short term. Yes there may be riots on the streets of Eastbourne, Elmbridge and Sutton on Sea but this will not bring out the usual protesters. 

[limpid]

58 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Perhaps if the government didnt give some of the billions over overseas aid then that would have gone some way to plug the so called 20 billion black hole.

The billions you describe are investments in future opportunities. Sometimes not very distant future.

This isn't even a left/right issue, it's just good practice.

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, delboy54 said:

I know that some pensioners are wealthy enough not to need this payment, but the methodology Labour have used seems flawed.

I disagree with your sentiment we'd be seeing mass outcry from all ages under the tories, but I agree with this assessment.

Means testing it when we can affordably do so just makes sense, but the 'cliff edge' approach has been criticised since it was first floated, and is clearly unfair, but the Chancellor and PM seem too keen to use this as an exercise in party discipline that listening to constructive feedback.

How big the real impact will be, it's hard to say, but we'll be getting the odd story on the front page of pensioners dying from the cold this winter, and it's something that will stick with that generation of voters for the next GE.

[foreveryoung]

22 minutes ago, Genie said:

The poorest pensions still get their pension, pension credit and the fuel allowance so I assume they are unaffected by this.

Only 'if', they are claiming pension credit. Which apparently 800k are not. A big percentage of that is probably because they have no idea how to. We know how difficult it can be to claim for these benefits with the paperwork involved.

[sidcow]

11 hours ago, bickster said:

Effluent?

I've become quite effluent in Spanish this last week or so. 

[MakemineVanilla]

29 minutes ago, limpid said:

The billions you describe are investments in future opportunities. Sometimes not very distant future.

 

Could you explain that - opportunities for whom?

[foreveryoung]

14 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Reading the last few pages it’s abundantly clear the biggest issue with the immigration “debate” is the constant lumping in of everyone on a small boat as an “illegal immigrant”

Theyre not. Some of them are forced to break the law to get here because we don’t offer them a legal alternative. But that doesn’t make them an illegal immigrant. 
 

The sooner those safe routes are established and we can help separate genuine asylum seekers with actual illegal immigrants the better. 

But there is a technicality here.

It is illegal to pay illegal gangs, and travel over the channel in a small boat. So they are basically illegals until they claim and are granted asylum. 

So the many, was it 17000+  in the country on the waiting list who have disappeared or even not applied, are illegal immigrants 

[Wainy316]

1 hour ago, delboy54 said:

Got to say that if the Tories had cut the winter fuel allowance there would have been an outcry from everyone of all ages...demonstrations on the streets in London etc by the usual demonstrators...

As Labour have done it the only outcry is from the pensioners...

Perhaps if the government didnt give some of the billions over overseas aid then that would have gone some way to plug the so called 20 billion black hole.

I know that some pensioners are wealthy enough not to need this payment, but the methodology Labour have used seems flawed.

Well that's not really true is it considering there is a good number of Labour MPs against the policy.