foreveryoung Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 5 minutes ago, bickster said: I just figure most people like to be understood, that post is unintelligible. You're also telling us it isn’t an opinion but it’s randomly generated by your fingers. This isn't on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 8 Moderator Share Posted September 8 10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: This isn't on topic? I’m trying to understand what you posted FWIW very few of the last three pages are actually about the Labour Party and an awful lot of them are yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 3 minutes ago, bickster said: I’m trying to understand what you posted FWIW very few of the last three pages are actually about the Labour Party and an awful lot of them are yours You have also followed up with many replies. If you want it back on topic you can say anytime. The point is, it's Labours job to sort the immigration issue, so I would say it's borderline still on topic talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 8 Moderator Share Posted September 8 27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: no one acts like the language police online anymore, especially when we are randomly typing on phones https://www.villatalk.com/guidelines Quote Please post in English, follow netiquette and don't use text speak (txt spk). I know it's tricky on a phone, but it's helpful when posts are intelligible. I can only hope Labour improves education standards for today's kids 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 2 hours ago, bickster said: You're also telling us it isn’t an opinion but it’s randomly generated by your fingers. I took that as a given. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 It is not illegal to seek asylum but thousands of people going missing and your government not knowing where they are or what they are doing is an appalling dereliction of duty. Whether these people are being exploited or committing crime to survive, it is a tremendous failing of your government that needs to be set right as soon as possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 8 Administrator Share Posted September 8 3 hours ago, foreveryoung said: So basically you are worried about about the minority that get exploited, rather than the minority that add to the crime rate. Since your so informed, as I'm not of the narrative they are only either here for jobs or to be taken advantage of. Could you give me any figures of crime committed by illegal, or even legal asylum seekers. It'll be wrong, as even though you believe the government hated on these people, they do not want to share the true figures ,as it'll upset a few I'm sure. So in the first paragraph, you make up that it's a minority, but then you use whataboutism and demand evidence from someone else, because you claim to know "they" have it. This is Trumpian levels of bullshit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 6 minutes ago, limpid said: So in the first paragraph, you make up that it's a minority, but then you use whataboutism and demand evidence from someone else, because you claim to know "they" have it. This is Trumpian levels of bullshit. I'll make it clear so we avoid changing the subject picking up on punctuation, spelling etc. Some are worried about crime by Illegal immigrants disappearing into the country. Some are more worried about the exploitation of illegal immigrants disappearing into the country, where's the bullshit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 8 VT Supporter Share Posted September 8 20 hours ago, bickster said: Winter fuel payments should always have been means tested. It makes no sense for them not to be, unless of course you're bribing the only proportion of the electorate that actually votes for you. This. My wife and I are pensioners, so we've been getting the winter fuel payment. Nice as it is (and we are far from rich), we aren't the people who really need it. I'd rather they kept the overall outlay the same, paying double the amount to half the present number of recipients. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 18 minutes ago, mjmooney said: This. My wife and I are pensioners, so we've been getting the winter fuel payment. Nice as it is (and we are far from rich), we aren't the people who really need it. I'd rather they kept the overall outlay the same, paying double the amount to half the present number of recipients. This is a view of how government benefits work that is very prominent in countries like the U.K., Australia, US etc. The government acts as a safety net to pick up those who fall on hard times. Having spent some time living in Scandinavia they have a different view of how government benefits should work. In Sweden government benefits are never means tested. Everyone gets government benefits (like child support etc) whether you are the richest or the poorest in society. Their philosophy is that all pay into the system (with the richest naturally paying more) but all should get their share out of the system. I think nether system is ideologically ‘right’. The benefit of the Scandinavian system is that you are less resentful people who take money out of the system because you are also taking money out of the system. In the U.K. or Australia there is often resentment with this notion of one group of people paying taxes so another group can receive benefits. The counter to this is that the alternative ‘safety net’ philosophy does potentially provide a more efficient distribution of government resources. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 8 Administrator Share Posted September 8 59 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I'll make it clear so we avoid changing the subject picking up on punctuation, spelling etc. Some are worried about crime by Illegal immigrants disappearing into the country. Some are more worried about the exploitation of illegal immigrants disappearing into the country, where's the bullshit. Sorry, have you managed to read into my post an expression of my opinion on this? The bullshit is in forming an opinion based on no data and then expecting others to provide the evidence "they" have for a strawman of your invention. This is the kind of rambling, incoherent thought Trump expresses when he talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 5 minutes ago, limpid said: Sorry, have you managed to read into my post an expression of my opinion on this? The bullshit is in forming an opinion based on no data and then expecting others to provide the evidence "they" have for a strawman of your invention. This is the kind of rambling, incoherent thought Trump expresses when he talks. An this is the kind of deflection MPs use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 8 Administrator Share Posted September 8 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: An this is the kind of deflection MPs use. What am I deflecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 4 minutes ago, limpid said: What am I deflecting? The negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 8 Administrator Share Posted September 8 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: The negatives. I have no idea what you are talking about. What have I said is or isn't negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 I know I'm late on this, but I was listening to some random MP on GMB this morning talking about the cutting of OAP winter fuel benefits, an that it will affect some poorer pensioners I mean is there not anywhere else in the whole of the benefits or tax system this money can come from. To find the money from pensioners is just mind boggling. Labout are definately 1-0 down already, an it's only been 9 weeks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted September 9 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 9 Reading the last few pages it’s abundantly clear the biggest issue with the immigration “debate” is the constant lumping in of everyone on a small boat as an “illegal immigrant” Theyre not. Some of them are forced to break the law to get here because we don’t offer them a legal alternative. But that doesn’t make them an illegal immigrant. The sooner those safe routes are established and we can help separate genuine asylum seekers with actual illegal immigrants the better. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: I know I'm late on this, but I was listening to some random MP on GMB this morning talking about the cutting of OAP winter fuel benefits, an that it will affect some poorer pensioners I mean is there not anywhere else in the whole of the benefits or tax system this money can come from. To find the money from pensioners is just mind boggling. Labout are definately 1-0 down already, an it's only been 9 weeks. The point is that you're giving winter fuel allowance to loads of very wealthy people including a load of millionaires and near millionaires. Just like the way you imagine every 'illegal' is a 18-40 year old criminal, not every pensioner is a hard up vulnerable biddy. And what's the 0 in this 1-0. Did you not pay any attention to the last 14 years, which btw have caused the need for making this money back. And were you equally keeping score with all the actual genuinely vulnerable people who have died/suffered over the previous decade too from the ideological cuts we suffered through? Did you keep score when the Tories were running the health service into the ground? I'd hate to get ill now and be waiting on an ambulance. Edited September 9 by Rolta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 32 minutes ago, Rolta said: The point is that you're giving winter fuel allowance to loads of very wealthy people including a load of millionaires and near millionaires. Just like the way you imagine every 'illegal' is a 18-40 year old criminal, not every pensioner is a hard up vulnerable biddy. And what's the 0 in this 1-0. Did you not pay any attention to the last 14 years, which btw have caused the need for making this money back. And were you equally keeping score with all the actual genuinely vulnerable people who have died/suffered over the previous decade too from the ideological cuts we suffered through? Did you keep score when the Tories were running the health service into the ground? I'd hate to get ill now and be waiting on an ambulance. So you voted Labout I get it. You do realise some poor Pensioners are going to go without the Fuel benefit too yeah? Or did you not read that bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 9 Administrator Share Posted September 9 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: So you voted Labout I get it. You do realise some poor Pensioners are going to go without the Fuel benefit too yeah? Or did you not read that bit. Did the poster say they voted Labour? Or did they say that the country was run into the ground by the Tories? One does not imply the other. Please read what people write and stop creating strawmen. Which "poor pensioners" are you talking about? "Poor pensioners" will still get the allowance through their pension benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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